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Thread: Who is best Russian lady?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I commend her for pushing the envelope but it's not like it's getting her anywhere, particularly in the FS. Having two 3Fs in the program is basically like shooting herself in the foot. The jumps is very unstable and I can't recall the last time she landed both attempts in a program. It's just smarter for her to go the easier route for now.
    She should do a safer program at Russian Nationals and Europeans to try and get on the team with Julia. Given how Kostner is skating, and that a clean Sotnikova is probably good enough to beat Julia, she could even win Europeans with a safer program. Then when she gets to the Games if she wants to try for the all out program to see if she can compete with Asada and Kim.

  2. #47
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Sotnikova is a headcase but given how judges love her, you can only imagine how they will inflate her score probably be in 200+ if she can even clean up a program
    not happening anytime though, she seems to have an obsession with the triple Flip

    she even does it in her EX like its her best jump
    then also ends up popping or falling them.

    really simple ditch the triple flip combos in FS and replace with 3lo combo or 3S
    same goes for SP, She underrotates 3flz-3lo anyway, so why not do a 3flz-2T, 3Lo 2A
    but then again 3-3 is very much the racking points for the SP

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I know her two 3Fs have been giving her issues, but she's made errors on all 5 triples in some way shape or form. It's hard to say that a 3S would be any kinder to her. At least a 3F with -GOE still gets fairly comparable points to a 3S. She's clearly capable of landing her 3F, she just needs the focus. I'm assuming in her FS she's still able to do both flips in practice, even if they haven't been kind to her in competition.
    She should swap the second 3F for something she has a higher success rate on. Her 3Ls are nice and her 3Ss aren't bad either. There's no guarantee she'll land it but she lands those much more consistently than she lands the 3F which is 100% hit or miss. It's not worth taking a deduction on the 3F. It's not like someone keeping a lutz in the program knowing they flutz; as long as you land it, it's okay to take the small deduction and keep moving. Adelina's 3F is a huge risk b/c her technique is terribly unstable. I can't remember the last time she landed both in a program cleanly. More often than not she misses the second 3F which hurts her score. Additionally a miss on that jump gets called 3F+SEQ b/c she already attempted it earlier in the program which means she loses a combo which costs her even more points. This is not a good plan for success.

    Her skating is strong enough for her to take the slightly easier route. Clean elements equals more GOE and cleaner programs which equals higher PCS which equals more rep with the judges and better overall placement.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    She should do a safer program at Russian Nationals and Europeans to try and get on the team with Julia. Given how Kostner is skating, and that a clean Sotnikova is probably good enough to beat Julia, she could even win Europeans with a safer program. Then when she gets to the Games if she wants to try for the all out program to see if she can compete with Asada and Kim.
    It's really hard to suddenly train a much more difficult program after competing dumbed down versions prior to that. And also, some competitors will rather not play it safe, even if it's not playing it smart.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's really hard to suddenly train a much more difficult program after competing dumbed down versions prior to that. And also, some competitors will rather not play it safe, even if it's not playing it smart.
    Well she might end up watching the Olympics at home as a result, and be wondering why she tried such an ambitious program when she already has consistency problems as it was.

    Anyway if it is one or the other getting to the Olympics should be her first priority. She has a better shot at a medal, especialy a gold medal potentially, in 2018 than 2014 anyway (although that applies to a lot of other skaters too).

  6. #51
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    She should swap the second 3F for something she has a higher success rate on. Her 3Ls are nice and her 3Ss aren't bad either. There's no guarantee she'll land it but she lands those much more consistently than she lands the 3F which is 100% hit or miss. It's not worth taking a deduction on the 3F. It's not like someone keeping a lutz in the program knowing they flutz; as long as you land it, it's okay to take the small deduction and keep moving. Adelina's 3F is a huge risk b/c her technique is terribly unstable. I can't remember the last time she landed both in a program cleanly. More often than not she misses the second 3F which hurts her score. Additionally a miss on that jump gets called 3F+SEQ b/c she already attempted it earlier in the program which means she loses a combo which costs her even more points. This is not a good plan for success.

    Her skating is strong enough for her to take the slightly easier route. Clean elements equals more GOE and cleaner programs which equals higher PCS which equals more rep with the judges and better overall placement.
    apparently its because she does them perfectly in trainings, of course its enough
    and Sotnikova herself insists on doing the two 3F in FS, read a recent interview with her coach Buyanova: http://fsrussia.ru/news/882_elena-vo...ya-sopernica/#

    maybe she is brainwashed by her team of thinking her 3F is her money jump ?

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    I think she understands that in order to win she needs to do two 3Fs. There's no point in her dumbing down her programs to obtain a nice placement. I say, go for broke. It's her choice and she's choosing not to back down, even if it's not been very successful so far. It's like those who suggest she do 3Z-2L in the SP. Sure, she could get away with that, but she knows to be uber-competitive she needs to go for the harder combo.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    apparently its because she does them perfectly in trainings, of course its enough
    and Sotnikova herself insists on doing the two 3F in FS, read a recent interview with her coach Buyanova: http://fsrussia.ru/news/882_elena-vo...ya-sopernica/#

    maybe she is brainwashed by her team of thinking her 3F is her money jump ?
    I really hope her teams takes a hard look at where she is and how many times she's missed out on a gold medal due to missing that freakin' 3F. She'd have won Euros last year if she landed that first 3F...she'd have won COC if she'd landed just one of those 3Fs (she missed both). Those are the two times I can recall off the top of my head where one jump would have made the difference.

    A few years back I did jumps statistics for Sasha Cohen in all of her major competitions. One of the things I calculated was her success rate with different jumps. I don't have nearly as much time as I did back then but I wonder what Adelina's success rate is with the 3F since becoming a senior?

  9. #54
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I think she understands that in order to win she needs to do two 3Fs. There's no point in her dumbing down her programs to obtain a nice placement. I say, go for broke. It's her choice and she's choosing not to back down, even if it's not been very successful so far. It's like those who suggest she do 3Z-2L in the SP. Sure, she could get away with that, but she knows to be uber-competitive she needs to go for the harder combo.
    Julia sometimes lips but she does two flutz in her FS because its more reliable for her
    Sotnikova is doing a jump in FS she has less than 50% success rate

  10. #55
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    A few years back I did jumps statistics for Sasha Cohen in all of her major competitions. One of the things I calculated was her success rate with different jumps. I don't have nearly as much time as I did back then but I wonder what Adelina's success rate is with the 3F since becoming a senior?
    Fact about Sotnikova: for 3 years now, she has not won a gold medal in a GP series
    I can't think of another skaters whose inconsistency is as bad as her
    No European Gold or GP medal gold at all, her senior career so far has been a failure

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I think she understands that in order to win she needs to do two 3Fs. There's no point in her dumbing down her programs to obtain a nice placement. I say, go for broke. It's her choice and she's choosing not to back down, even if it's not been very successful so far. It's like those who suggest she do 3Z-2L in the SP. Sure, she could get away with that, but she knows to be uber-competitive she needs to go for the harder combo.
    I don't think that's necessarily true though. The base value of the 3F is 5.3. Base value of the 3L is 5.1.

    She's killing her shot at winning for 0.2 of a point! She can make that up in GOE easily.

    This system is about playing with the points and making it work. Adelina and her team aren't playing the game to win...

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Fact about Sotnikova: for 3 years now, she has not won a gold medal in a GP series
    I can't think of another skaters whose inconsistency is as bad as her
    No European Gold or GP medal gold at all, her senior career so far has been a failure
    You were being semi-objective for a while there sky_fly but then you went all crazy again.

    Adelina has only been a senior for 3 years. She's only been to Euros once and she placed 2nd...she's medaled in 4 out of 5 GP events to date. True she hasn't won GP gold yet but I would hardly call her senior career a failure.

    Give credit where credit is due. She's hasn't lived up to her potential yet but by no means is she a failure and given that she's only 17, she's done a lot more than most skaters her age and she has the potential to finally get herself together one day and do even more.

    Ease up a little, sky_fly...

  13. #58
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    You were being semi-objective for a while there sky_fly but then you went all crazy again.

    Adelina has only been a senior for 3 years. She's only been to Euros once and she placed 2nd...she's medaled in 4 out of 5 GP events to date. True she hasn't won GP gold yet but I would hardly call her senior career a failure.

    Give credit where credit is due. She's hasn't lived up to her potential yet but by no means is she a failure and given that she's only 17, she's done a lot more than most skaters her age and she has the potential to finally get herself together one day and do even more.

    Ease up a little, sky_fly...
    well I used to be one of her biggest fan
    but her inconsistency really killed it for me
    I get turned off immediately by headcases

    she needs to look at Julia and Gracie who are more consistent and have done well in their senior careers so far

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    well I used to be one of her biggest fan
    but her inconsistency really killed it for me
    I get turned off immediately by headcases

    she needs to look at Julia and Gracie who are more consistent and have done well in their senior careers so far
    Gold is every bit as inconsistent as Sotnikova. The only clean program she has done was her Nationals LP, but only after bombing the short so badly she might have missed the World team had Nagasu skated a clean LP somehow (or Zawadzki an even decent one).

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    she needs to look at Julia and Gracie who are more consistent and have done well in their senior careers so far
    Who exactly is this Gracie you are referring to? Surely not Gracie Gold, who fell apart in the FS at SC and dropped from 1st to 3rd...not the same Gracie who completed only 3 triples in the FS and missed the podium at NHK. No way it's the same Gracie who hasn't won a single senior level event but yet is somehow having a better senior career. Can't be that Gracie girl who is every bit as hit or miss as Adelina is.

    Surely that can't be the Gracie to whom you're referring...because that'd just be stupid.

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