Plushenko Withdraws from Cup of Russia Grand Prix | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Plushenko Withdraws from Cup of Russia Grand Prix

Srin Odessa

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
I believe the military calls this a tactical withdrawal.

I agree. Does "Russian style" mean lack of choreography?

A lot of the strategies that worked under 6.0 didn't transition (haha!) well into COP. For example, 'the classic Russian setup' involved heavy emoting right in front of the judges during the 6.0. However, this can negatively impact their component scores due to the scoring system's emphasis on speed and seamless transitions.

It could be an institutional problem with the RSF having difficulty teaching young skaters what the COP wants out of skaters. I see someone like Dennis Ten as a skater that has the Russian style in terms of presentation while having programs well-optimized for COP.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Plushenko might have second thoughts about competing in Sochi after watching what Chan and Hanyu just laid down at TEB.

in Turin 2006 Sp scores 90.66
in ECH 2010 91.30
at Vancouver 90.85
Ha received lower scores, if he didn't landed in quad or quad combo.

Chan Skate Canada SP 88.10

Plus the Olympics is very special event. Many skater are very nervous. You don't forget Sochi will be his 4th Olympics..
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
And I don't get this. At all. Who are these people? Who will ONLY allow Plushenko's injuries to affect his skating - but NO ONE else's? Do you mean like - ever? So, again, I honestly don't know, don't understand, don't "get" who these people are to whom you refer? So I cannot make sweeping judgements about them, nor will I try to defend them. I can only speak for myself. And to me, what you claim is utterly... bizarre. We discuss injuries and their relation to skaters' performances on a regular basis on this forum, surely?

Injuries can certainly affect a performance, I'm not denying that. But it seems that Plushenko is held to some standard that if he makes errors then those are automatically chalked up to injury/not being healthy, and if he does well it's in spite of injury. As if it's unimaginable that he could make errors, like any other skater.

I get that his injuries can affect him, but I don't take that into consideration when he skates or when any other injured skater skates. Plenty of skaters skate injured all the time, and if they compete it is because they feel they are capable of performing well. If they make errors, the injury can play a part, but it shouldn't be the fallback excuse.


Also, seniorita, I think he was able to do 3Z-3T in spite of tripling his quad. I believe the SP allows for this, because if any skater triples their 4T, they should still be allowed to do a 3T in combination, if I'm not mistaken.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Plushenko has won COR and GPF multiple times, at this point of his career why even bother Cor, a competition so close to the previous one wouldnt offer him anything in terms of preparation. From 2005 he picked one GP event and that was it.

I dont know if he will compete or medal but I would bet anything that Plushenko wouldnt skate this kind of sp in Sochi ;)

I think CoR was necessary for him to present his programs to ISU judges and look for any weaknesses in his program, as well as see how receptive they are. He can still do the same at Euros but that's cutting it pretty close to the Olympics. Generally you like to show your programs a few times for judges to warm up to it (and usually your PCS will steadily increase over the season as a result too).

I also think/hope he'll skate a much better SP in Sochi. :)
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Injuries can certainly affect a performance, I'm not denying that. But it seems that Plushenko is held to some standard that if he makes errors then those are automatically chalked up to injury/not being healthy, and if he does well it's in spite of injury. As if it's unimaginable that he could make errors, like any other skater.

I get that his injuries can affect him, but I don't take that into consideration when he skates or when any other injured skater skates. Plenty of skaters skate injured all the time, and if they compete it is because they feel they are capable of performing well. If they make errors, the injury can play a part, but it shouldn't be the fallback excuse.

It seems, you don't know his career. He won many titles when he was injury. He isn't a cry baby.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
When plushenko doubled or tripled jumps in every competition but the Olympics in the 2009-2010 season I never thought it was because of injury. When he fell on his 3a in the sp at euros 2013 and then almost immediately had spinal disc replacement surgery i do blame injury. Because plushenko falling on 3a or quad toe has historically meant bad injury. Really bad!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
It seems, you don't know his career. He won many titles when he was injury. He isn't a cry baby.

I wasn't implying that he is. And I'm aware that, like many other skaters, Plushenko has competed while injured and won. I'm saying his ubers are quick to dismiss any mistakes of his as merely due to injury, instead of the accepting the notion that he can make mistakes like any other skater.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Plushenko might have second thoughts about competing in Sochi after watching what Chan and Hanyu just laid down at TEB.

Lol! That's plushenko! So scared of other skaters! So no skating in sochi Russia for plushenko! Chan and hanyu will be there! Incredibly consistent and plushenko like chan and hanyu! Lol!! Sure!!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I don't think he would back down from Sochi. But with his programs the way they are and with being not fully recovered, and with stiff competition at Cup of Russia, it makes sense for him to withdraw.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I wasn't implying that he is. And I'm aware that, like many other skaters, Plushenko has competed while injured and won. I'm saying his ubers are quick to dismiss any mistakes of his as merely due to injury, instead of the accepting the notion that he can make mistakes like any other skater.

Not true! When someone has spinal disc surgery after an event I can say his problems were because of injury. Not his double lutz at cor 2009 or double in euros 2010 or Turin 2006. Falling on a 3a is astonishingly rare for plushenko! He's not Patrick Chan where you expect it.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I don't think he would back down from Sochi. But with his programs the way they are and with being not fully recovered, and with stiff competition at Cup of Russia, it makes sense for him to withdraw.

I do not get these comments! Olympics has the toughest and is the biggest competition. And that is his goal. So he's avoiding cor because of competition but wants to go to the Olympics?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I do not get these comments! Olympics has the toughest and is the biggest competition. And that is his goal. So he's avoiding cor because of competition but wants to go to the Olympics?

The Olympics is his goal, where he's putting in all his chips. If he went to Cup of Russia and was defeated by multiple skaters, that would compromise his standing internationally... and nationally, if Kovtun beat him. His programs are still bare bones even if he's landing the jumps and legit ISU judges would flay him in the PCS marks until he gets his choreography up to speed (at least at the level it was in Euros 2012).
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Not true! When someone has spinal disc surgery after an event I can say his problems were because of injury. Not his double lutz at cor 2009 or double in euros 2010 or Turin 2006. Falling on a 3a is astonishingly rare for plushenko! He's not Patrick Chan where you expect it.

Um, he himself said that the fall on the 3A in Euros 2013 was not because of injury, and yet his fans were adamant that it was. He was landing triple axels and 3Z-3T in the practices before Euros, so clearly he was still capable of cleanly landing them, even if he was injured.

Would you say his tripled quad and 3Z-2T at Volvo Cup were due to injury or "legitimate" mistakes?
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I wasn't implying that he is. And I'm aware that, like many other skaters, Plushenko has competed while injured and won. I'm saying his ubers are quick to dismiss any mistakes of his as merely due to injury, instead of the accepting the notion that he can make mistakes like any other skater.

If you read the thread backwards I think none of his fans implied he doesnt do mistakes, on the contrary I would say. Plushenko did and does mistakes in his programs but this showing was after a spine surgery so I m wondering what exactly people were waiting to see? Yes sure he is not skating like Chan is now and never will but on that account nobody else skates like Chan so whats the point of competing against him? There might be a lot of reasons for Plu to skate in Sochi besides who is capable of what, and the condition of the other skaters should not be his worry now.

Statistically Plushenko is not falling down just because so it only normal to think he might have issues to fall on a 3axel for example at Euros. This time he did better than Euros so that means their surgery might have been successful. If you see his lp he is happy at the end, meaning this stage of his preparation was good for his team. He is not a seasoned skater and even for them we tend to say Oh they didnt peak at Gp etc, so let Plushenko peak where he wants to. Speaking for myself, I m just not really having to comment on anything , it was clearly a test skate for them, the first after months in a B event.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
If you read the thread backwards I think none of his fans implied he doesnt do mistakes, on the contrary I would say. Plushenko did and does mistakes in his programs but this showing was after a spine surgery so I m wondering what exactly people were waiting to see? Yes sure he is not skating like Chan is now and never will but on that account nobody else skates like Chan so whats the point of competing against him? There might be a lot of reasons for Plu to skate in Sochi besides who is capable of what, and the condition of the other skaters should not be his worry now.

Statistically Plushenko is not falling down just because so it only normal to think he might have issues to fall on a 3axel for example at Euros. This time he did better than Euros so that means their surgery might have been successful. If you see his lp he is happy at the end, meaning this stage of his preparation was good for his team. He is not a seasoned skater and even for them we tend to say Oh they didnt peak at Gp etc, so let Plushenko peak where he wants to. Speaking for myself, I m just not really having to comment on anything , it was clearly a test skate for them, the first after months in a B event.

I agree that Plushenko really doesn't need to defend his reputation from anyone, and no fan needs to defend it. His record speaks for itself. Whatever his reasons for going through such a grueling operation and then wanting to train again, let alone skate, I'm willing to watch what he has to show us. Especially because he's skating in his home country, I think it will be a very powerful moment.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Um, he himself said that the fall on the 3A in Euros 2013 was not because of injury, and yet his fans were adamant that it was. He was landing triple axels and 3Z-3T in the practices before Euros, so clearly he was still capable of cleanly landing them, even if he was injured.

Would you say his tripled quad and 3Z-2T at Volvo Cup were due to injury or "legitimate" mistakes?

He said it wasn't because of injury but also said something did happen physically during the SP that hurt him. I'll say it again! If someone immediately after withdrawing from an event has spinal disc replacement surgery I think that was largely responsible for the mistakes-probably exclusively responsible.

Regarding the Volvo competition- Weren't those planned? I wasn't aware they were mistakes.
 
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