Plushenko Withdraws from Cup of Russia Grand Prix

SkateFan66 · Nov 14, 2013

Skater Boy said:
Sure, but do you think he will break the trend of pulling out of events with injury issues? I am not sure why but somehow I dno't gt the feeling a lot of us feel Evan is that serious o realistic about a return. Whereas despite the horrible injuries of plushy one still thinks he is trying. Evans attempt is sort of like Suguri's. You wish them well but it doensn't seem very realistic or too genuine in the case of Evan in some ways. But Evan is a cmpeittior so you never can tell.

If Evan is not healthy enough to compete, it does not mean that he was not serious about competing, or that his effort was less than genuine. Evan recovered from his November 2012 surgery and was skating great this summer. I saw him practice & perform in Sun Valley in July and he looked fully recovered from his surgery. Unfortunately, Evan sustained new injures in August (slight abdominal tear, and a tear in his left hip labrum) Both of those injuries required time off the ice and physical therapy. It is doubtful that he will fully recover in time to compete this season. However, Evan is now back on the ice training. If Evan cannot compete this season, it will not be because of lack of effort or desire.

dorispulaski · Nov 14, 2013

I believe the team event rules are that if you have skaters qualified for the Olympics, one of those skaters must skate the team event for you. Only if you do not have a skater for one of the disciplines can you use a skater who is not competing in one of the disciplines.

I do wonder whether the following would be legal. Russia has 3 spots in pairs. There is no way that they have 3 pairs that can sweep the podium. How about they put Kovtun with Yuko Kavaguti (however mismatched), and get them out to a Senior B to get a qualifying score, and send them as the third pair in the regular event. Could Kovtun now substitute for Plushenko in the team event?

noidont · Nov 14, 2013

dorispulaski said:
I believe the team event rules are that if you have skaters qualified for the Olympics, one of those skaters must skate the team event for you. Only if you do not have a skater for one of the disciplines can you use a skater who is not competing in one of the disciplines.

I do wonder whether the following would be legal. Russia has 3 spots in pairs. There is no way that they have 3 pairs that can sweep the podium. How about they put Kovtun with Yuko Kavaguti (however mismatched), and get them out to a Senior B to get a qualifying score, and send them as the third pair in the regular event. Could Kovtun now substitute for Plushenko in the team event?

Jeez. That's one tough road to Sochi. The easier would be what Tarasova is thinking, just ask ISU for another host spot in both team and men's, which is a fantastic idea. It will create a great global controversy over Russia's relentless effort to win medals in their Olympics despite every rule written. Western press gets the Cold War hard-on they are so anticipating. Figure skating will have its first 15 minutes since what, 2002? Then Tarasova also gets her pet Kovtun a treat. Everyone is happy except for maybe Team USA and Team Canada, which is really perfect for the narrative. It isn't like Kovtun is a medal threat to anyone in singles. While we are at it, if Sotnikova doesn't make it, maybe Russia will have three ladies' spots. Awesome....

CanadianSkaterGuy · Nov 14, 2013

ciocio said:
I'm afraid that she is already playing them, because it seems that Russia has asked ISU to allow them two skaters for Sochi which is completely unfair. It is obvious to me that Tarasova knows very well that Kovtun won't go if Plushenko is able to skate even a half clean program.

That is absolutely unfair. Japan could send 4 or 5 male skaters but are only able to send 3. It's not the ISU's fault that the Russian fed was stupid for sending Kovtun and it came back to bite them in the end.

sky_fly20 · Nov 14, 2013

noidont said:
Jeez. That's one tough road to Sochi. The easier would be what Tarasova is thinking, just ask ISU for another host spot in both team and men's, which is a fantastic idea. It will create a great global controversy over Russia's relentless effort to win medals in their Olympics despite every rule written. Western press gets the Cold War hard-on they are so anticipating. Figure skating will have its first 15 minutes since what, 2002? Then Tarasova also gets her pet Kovtun a treat. Everyone is happy except for maybe Team USA and Team Canada, which is really perfect for the narrative. It isn't like Kovtun is a medal threat to anyone in singles. While we are at it, if Sotnikova doesn't make it, maybe Russia will have three ladies' spots. Awesome....

LRK · Nov 14, 2013

Plushenko News_Eng‏@PlushenkoNews3h
Alexei Mishin: Skipping Grand Prix will not create any additional difficulties to Plushenko (Google translation):
http://translate.google.com/transla...p://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/12599.html

"- Zhenya had pains in his left knee, - said Alexei Mishin. - After consultation with the doctors he had been asked to reduce the load. Runs allowed, jumping - no. In this mode, the training, we were not able to adequately prepare for the home Grand Prix in Moscow. Therefore took the decision to withdraw an athlete from the tournament, but to continue training.

- What kind of injury Plushenko?

- In the language of the doctor: exacerbation of pain.

- Before the World Russia are planning some starts?

- Certainly. But it is not clear where we can speak. In general, there is a rule before the end of the final Grand Prix of the athlete, who starred with the stage of illness, in any competitions to compete can not. Who will go Planned work - this is not the time for us to become a big obstacle to a rational and systematic preparation for the main starts - Russian and European championships and the Olympics. Skipping Grand Prix will not create any additional difficulties in our way.

- Concentrate on anything right now to work with Plushenko, given the limitations in the training process?

- In working out the indicator transition, which is now very important for improving the configuration and maintenance of tracks, to improve the rotation. The work we have enough!"

CanadianSkaterGuy · Nov 14, 2013

On the one hand, if he's told to not jump this is a good opportunity to make his choreography more intricate/difficult, improve his spins, etc.

Those will play a bigger role in Sochi than his jumps, IMO. Although perhaps on home ice more than anywhere, Plushenko can skate any program cleanly and place higher than guys who skate clean but have harder programs. Anyways, he shouldn't depend on a clean program garnering high PCS and should actually up the content of his programs.

LRK · Nov 14, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
On the one hand, if he's told to not jump this is a good opportunity to make his choreography more intricate/difficult, improve his spins, etc.

That's what I took the "working on the indicator transition" to mean - though Google translate is being its cryptic self.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Nov 14, 2013

LRK said:
That's what I took the "working on the indicator transition" to mean - though Google translate is being its cryptic self.

Hah, okay.

SubRosa · Nov 14, 2013

Two thoughts:

(1) Russia sends Kovtun (or another Russian man) to skate the team event. Said skater develops an "injury" and Plushenko is subbed in to skate the men's event. (That's assuming that the individual event has more meaning to Plushy than the team event.)

(2) At the Olympics, Plushy skates like he did at Volvo Cup. Chan skates like he did at 2013 Worlds. Who beats whom (and how loud will be the outcry)?

gmyers · Nov 14, 2013

He could increase the speed of his spins but really he's already at level 4s mostly and he's not doing easy FUSPs or anything so actually not much room for improvement on spins.

LRK · Nov 14, 2013

He did say in one of his interviews after Volvo Cup, that he knew he needed to work on his spins, though. I forget in which article it was?

CanadianSkaterGuy · Nov 14, 2013

SubRosa said:
At the Olympics, Plushy skates like he did at Volvo Cup. Chan skates like he did at 2013 Worlds. Who beats whom (and how loud will be the outcry)?

On paper, Chan would still beat Plushenko, and that's due to the SP.

Plushenko would have been miles behind Chan's perfect SP for tripling the quad and no triple-triple. Chan scored 98.37 points, and Plushenko garnered 82.34 points. With legit ISU judging, Plushenko likely would have received about 79-80 points. He had two errors and somehow his PCS was 42.70, which was higher than his personal best short program PCS score of 42.50. And the ISU judges surely would have given -GOE for the tripled quad (and not +2's as some judges at Volvo gave him) as it was a solo jump that lacked steps leading into it, and the 3Z-2T probably wouldn't have gotten +2s. If Plushenko skated his SP at Volvo Cup at 2013 Worlds, with proper judging, he'd have been sitting in 8th or 9th - and that's even with how bad the field skated - and over 16 points behind Chan.

In the FS, Plushenko attempted 1 quad, versus Chan who attempted 2 quads that got massive GOE. And by doubling the salchow, Plushenko's base value was 74.13 to Chan's 76.08. He only scored 6.5 points higher TES than Chan (88.71 vs. 82.13), after GOE bonus/deductions. Now, bearing in mind he was 16 points behind Chan after the SP, Chan would have had to get 9.45 points less PCS for Plushenko to win. Essentially Chan's Worlds FS would have had to score about 79.83 points of PCS in the FS for Plushenko to win. And a competition with Chan scoring below 80 points PCS, no matter how bad he skates is not going to happen. (Not to mention, 92.20 points of PCS for a program like the one skated by Plushenko at Volvo Cup shatters his personal best of 88.84 at Euros 2012 when his program was FAR better.) Like Denis Ten, Plushenko's Volvo FS would have likely beat Chan's Worlds FS (and should), but certainly not by 16 points -- Chan's SP lead would have lost it for him.

That's why I'm wondering why people are all like Plushenko can win gold or medal in Sochi if he skates like at the Volvo Cup... and it's like... um, no, he'd score 80 points at best for that SP and essentially take himself out of the medal race. :eek:

hwell:

Of course, the FS audience rarely ever considers the SP, or harder base value, or harder choreography, and just looks at a clean FS vs a non-clean FS, so the outcry probably would be loud. :laugh:

plushyfan · Nov 14, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
On paper, Chan would still beat Plushenko, and that's due to the SP.

Plushenko would have been miles behind Chan's perfect SP for tripling the quad and no triple-triple. Chan scored 98.37 points, and Plushenko garnered 82.34 points. With legit ISU judging, Plushenko likely would have received about 79-80 points. He had two errors and somehow his PCS was 42.70, which was higher than his personal best short program PCS score of 42.50. And the ISU judges surely would have given -GOE for the tripled quad (and not +2's as some judges at Volvo gave him) as it was a solo jump that lacked steps leading into it, and the 3Z-2T probably wouldn't have gotten +2s. If Plushenko skated his SP at Volvo Cup at 2013 Worlds, with proper judging, he'd have been sitting in 8th or 9th - and that's even with how bad the field skated - and over 16 points behind Chan.

In the FS, Plushenko attempted 1 quad, versus Chan who attempted 2 quads that got massive GOE. And by doubling the salchow, Plushenko's base value was 74.13 to Chan's 76.08. He only scored 6.5 points higher TES than Chan (88.71 vs. 82.13), after GOE bonus/deductions. Now, bearing in mind he was 16 points behind Chan after the SP, Chan would have had to get 9.45 points less PCS for Plushenko to win. Essentially Chan's Worlds FS would have had to score about 79.83 points of PCS in the FS for Plushenko to win. And a competition with Chan scoring below 80 points PCS, no matter how bad he skates is not going to happen. (Not to mention, 92.20 points of PCS for a program like the one skated by Plushenko at Volvo Cup shatters his personal best of 88.84 at Euros 2012 when his program was FAR better.) Like Denis Ten, Plushenko's Volvo FS would have likely beat Chan's Worlds FS (and should), but certainly not by 16 points -- Chan's SP lead would have lost it for him.

That's why I'm wondering why people are all like Plushenko can win gold or medal in Sochi if he skates like at the Volvo Cup... and it's like... um, no, he'd score 80 points at best for that SP and essentially take himself out of the medal race. hwell:

Of course, the FS audience rarely ever considers the SP, or harder base value, or harder choreography, and just looks at a clean FS vs a non-clean FS, so the outcry probably would be loud.

IF he will be healthy, will be quad combo in his SP, and quad combo (4T+3T)and a solo quad Salchow, and one 3A and one 3A+3T and other jumps in LP. The perfect Chan can beat him, but it will not be an easy task.

gmyers · Nov 14, 2013

LRK said:
He did say in one of his interviews after Volvo Cup, that he knew he needed to work on his spins, though. I forget in which article it was?

They could be better of course but there's no level problem on non FUSPs. He does ccsp and fcsp kovtun actually does FUSPs!

ciocio · Nov 14, 2013

To me it's crystal clear that he can't win if he skates like at the Volvo Cup. :thumbsup

lushenko and Mishin also know it, that's why they are talking about improvements, training, etc. The mystery here is if health allows him to progress and present the "business class programs". :laugh:

ciocio · Nov 14, 2013

gmyers said:
They could be better of course but there's no level problem on non FUSPs. He does ccsp and fcsp kovtun actually does FUSPs!

Just figure that I'm arguing for some days with someone who insists that his spins are level 2. :think::sarcasm:

plushyfan said:
IF he will be healthy, will be quad combo in his SP, and quad combo (4T+3T)and a solo quad Salchow, and one 3A and one 3A+3T and other jumps in LP. The perfect Chan can beat him, but it will not be an easy task.

If Plushenko can skate a program like that, he can finish off podium and it would still be a :eek:

achievement.

plushyfan · Nov 14, 2013

LRK said:
He did say in one of his interviews after Volvo Cup, that he knew he needed to work on his spins, though. I forget in which article it was?

http://rbth.co.uk/sport/2013/11/10/e...son_31581.html
Plushy said after SP

"I did not think everything I wanted would turn out. The fourth jump missed, surely, but the program was worthy. Pirouettes were poor, I would not conceal that, since I controlled all moves and emotions very intensely. Program are not skated yet, and they cannot, since it is the first tournament. Naturally, I skate better at trainings. The first start has been made now, the first stage is over, so we are waiting for tomorrow. Whatever it would be, it will be necessary to pass such competitions, recall the atmosphere, and see whether or not my back and health allow performing moves completely, since my back does not let me do things I did a year or two ago at 100 percent."

In LP his spins were better. And Mishin said he won't jump because of the minor surgery but they will work on the TRs, and spins.

LRK · Nov 14, 2013

Thanks, plushyfan! I thought you'd know.

Well, he's been back on the ice - what? - 4-5 months only? There's only so much that can be done in that amount of time - even if your name is Plushenko.

plushyfan · Nov 14, 2013

LRK said:
Thanks, plushyfan! I thought you'd know. Well, he's been back on the ice - what? - 4-5 months only? There's only so much that can be done in that amount of time - even if your name is Plushenko.

yes.

at 31. January: the surgery
in April he began the trainigs very carefully: general fitness development, gymnastic, run etc.
in May: he stepped to the ice, but doesn't jump
in middle of June: he got permission from the doctor for jumps
in July: first 3A
in August: first quad

no one just him :yes:

Plushenko Withdraws from Cup of Russia Grand Prix

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CanadianSkaterGuy

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