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Thread: Plushenko Withdraws from Cup of Russia Grand Prix

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    IF he will be healthy, will be quad combo in his SP, and quad combo (4T+3T)and a solo quad Salchow, and one 3A and one 3A+3T and other jumps in LP. The perfect Chan can beat him, but it will not be an easy task.
    I don't think executing this content is a matter of if he's healthy. More like, if he's capable, which I don't think he is. He hasn't done two quads in a FS (and never done three) in years. And I'll believe he can do a quad salchow when I see it. Historically, his salchow hasn't been the most reliable jump and he has trouble doing 3S sometimes (including Volvo Cup), and has yet to execute the 4S in competition (has he even attempted 4S in an ISU competition?).

    Clearly he's shown that he is relatively healthy, as per his Volvo Cup freeskate, but things like tripling the quad and neglecting to do a 3-3 in his SP were clearly mistakes. If he can do a quad/3-3 in the FS, he should have been able to do it in the SP, so let's not chalk that up to him being not healthy enough. I don't get why when Plushenko makes mistakes it's because he's not healthy enough, but when other skaters make mistakes they're mistakes.

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    I honestly am a bit confused about Plushenko's comeback so far. I know he has had some injuries that caused him to pull out of some events, but he didn't compete at Worlds or any competitions against non European skaters despite his comeback having started over 2 years ago now. Last year he didn't even finish Europeans, again he might have been injured, but his low short program placing probably had something to do with it. I get the impression he still wants to skate and compete, but doesn't really believe he can compete vs the Japanese men, Chan, or even Fernandez, so is picking and choosing his spots to compete. Will be interesting if he is willing to compete at the Olympics, despite little hope of a medal of any color. His comeback thus far would indicate probably not, and instead he will compete in some exhibition event in Russia around the same time against other Russian skaters who didn't make the Games. I also am a big Plushenko fan, but just calling it like I see it.

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    My feeling is that he only wants to compete if he thinks he can win. At Cup of Russia, he could very well finish off the podium, and perhaps even be defeated by Kovtun. That certainly wouldn't help his cause for being selected to go to Sochi, let alone placing well there. I would bet that he competes at Russian Nationals, skips Euros to rest up/avoid competing against Fernandez, and then goes to Sochi to skate however he skates. It's a smart strategy in that it gives him time to bide his health, but also prevents him from losing before Sochi.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    My feeling is that he only wants to compete if he thinks he can win. At Cup of Russia, he could very well finish off the podium, and perhaps even be defeated by Kovtun. That certainly wouldn't help his cause for being selected to go to Sochi, let alone placing well there. I would bet that he competes at Russian Nationals, skips Euros to rest up/avoid competing against Fernandez, and then goes to Sochi to skate however he skates. It's a smart strategy in that it gives him time to bide his health, but also prevents him from losing before Sochi.
    You really don't understand?? HE IS NOT READY. HE HAD NO TIME. Wait please. Give him as much patience as the other skaters....

    I bet, he will compete in Euros...if he won't he won't participate in Sochi, too

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    I agree with CanadianSkaterGuy and a few others on this thread that 'there is no way, if 'legitimate' judging is applied that Plushy's skating & choreography is close to Chan, Hanyu, Daisuke and even jump wise, to the likes of Tatsuki, Han Yan or Fernandez. I have been following this entire series, was a big Plushy fan during his OGM days and have watched his Volvo Cup skate, in all honesty, he is not skating with the speed he used to, entrance into jumps are laboured, the jumps lacked breathe and height, choreography/footwork completely missing, upper body is stiff. I am sorry, PCS of 42.70 is overmarked and really marks given for reputation! Even his SP at Euro Champs 2013 PCS was way overscored. He had 41 fpr PCS, I believe and Florent Amodio had 42 (based on memory), in all honesty his dance moves are no where near the complexity of Florent's. You know what, it is painful watching Plushy skate. It is even more painful, knowing the judges are marking him on reputation and undermarking the better skating /choreography of younger guys just because they haven't garnered a reputation yet!! The only outcry is putting people of watching figure skating beause they know marks are rigged - hence empty stadiums.

    I read an article where they interviewed Alexei Yagudin about the upcoming Olympics and his thoughts on Plushy competing. Yagudin said 'Why? Why would he want to do it?' That says it all. All these talk of 'avoiding competitions, allowing the body to heal' is an embarrassment, it says one thing - his body can't do it anymore. If he is a true athlete and confident about his own skating and his programs are competent enough, then he should have the confident to face any competitors. For example,this coming weekend Tropee Eric Bompard - Chan, Han Yan, Yuzuru all thrown together. I wish Plushy would retire graciously with fans retaining great memories of him and not this farce that is forced into our memories!!

  6. #66
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    Plushenko has won COR and GPF multiple times, at this point of his career why even bother Cor, a competition so close to the previous one wouldnt offer him anything in terms of preparation. From 2005 he picked one GP event and that was it.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    That's why I'm wondering why people are all like Plushenko can win gold or medal in Sochi if he skates like at the Volvo Cup... and it's like... um, no, he'd score 80 points at best for that SP and essentially take himself out of the medal race.
    I dont know if he will compete or medal but I would bet anything that Plushenko wouldnt skate this kind of sp in Sochi

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    My feeling is that he only wants to compete if he thinks he can win. At Cup of Russia, he could very well finish off the podium, and perhaps even be defeated by Kovtun. That certainly wouldn't help his cause for being selected to go to Sochi, let alone placing well there. I would bet that he competes at Russian Nationals, skips Euros to rest up/avoid competing against Fernandez, and then goes to Sochi to skate however he skates. It's a smart strategy in that it gives him time to bide his health, but also prevents him from losing before Sochi.
    Although if Fernandez keeps skating the way he is now, I think you might well see him at Europeans. No European skater is skating that well right now.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post

    Clearly he's shown that he is relatively healthy, as per his Volvo Cup freeskate, but things like tripling the quad and neglecting to do a 3-3 in his SP were clearly mistakes.
    He had done a 3t instead of quad, how could he do a triple toe again in the combo?
    Also Plushenko really cared for Lp TES in Volvo, should he have the peak of the season in this sp?

    Quote Originally Posted by icekiwi View Post
    The only outcry is putting people of watching figure skating beause they know marks are rigged - hence empty stadiums.


    If anything, Plush is one who cannot be accused for empty figure skating arenas. And what Yagudin thinks is irrelevant, on the same basis Rodnina praised him. Still it is his carreer and his personal bet.
    Last edited by seniorita; 11-14-2013 at 07:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Plushenko has won COR and GPF multiple times, at this point of his career why even bother Cor, a competition so close to the previous one wouldnt offer him anything in terms of preparation. From 2005 he picked one GP event and that was it.

    I dont know if he will compete or medal but I would bet anything that Plushenko wouldnt skate this kind of sp in Sochi
    I really hope he is the Plush we recall-if only for you Seniorita. You do love him so, it is sweet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icekiwi View Post
    I agree with CanadianSkaterGuy and a few others on this thread that 'there is no way, if 'legitimate' judging is applied that Plushy's skating & choreography is close to Chan, Hanyu, Daisuke and even jump wise, to the likes of Tatsuki, Han Yan or Fernandez. I have been following this entire series, was a big Plushy fan during his OGM days and have watched his Volvo Cup skate, in all honesty, he is not skating with the speed he used to, entrance into jumps are laboured, the jumps lacked breathe and height, choreography/footwork completely missing, upper body is stiff. I am sorry, PCS of 42.70 is overmarked and really marks given for reputation! Even his SP at Euro Champs 2013 PCS was way overscored. He had 41 fpr PCS, I believe and Florent Amodio had 42 (based on memory), in all honesty his dance moves are no where near the complexity of Florent's. You know what, it is painful watching Plushy skate. It is even more painful, knowing the judges are marking him on reputation and undermarking the better skating /choreography of younger guys just because they haven't garnered a reputation yet!! The only outcry is putting people of watching figure skating beause they know marks are rigged - hence empty stadiums.

    I read an article where they interviewed Alexei Yagudin about the upcoming Olympics and his thoughts on Plushy competing. Yagudin said 'Why? Why would he want to do it?' That says it all. All these talk of 'avoiding competitions, allowing the body to heal' is an embarrassment, it says one thing - his body can't do it anymore. If he is a true athlete and confident about his own skating and his programs are competent enough, then he should have the confident to face any competitors. For example,this coming weekend Tropee Eric Bompard - Chan, Han Yan, Yuzuru all thrown together. I wish Plushy would retire graciously with fans retaining great memories of him and not this farce that is forced into our memories!!
    He wants to face them! At the Olympics! the biggest event in skating! Everyone will see how he does. Maybe if he gets there.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I don't think executing this content is a matter of if he's healthy. More like, if he's capable, which I don't think he is. He hasn't done two quads in a FS (and never done three) in years. And I'll believe he can do a quad salchow when I see it. Historically, his salchow hasn't been the most reliable jump and he has trouble doing 3S sometimes (including Volvo Cup), and has yet to execute the 4S in competition (has he even attempted 4S in an ISU competition?).

    Clearly he's shown that he is relatively healthy, as per his Volvo Cup freeskate, but things like tripling the quad and neglecting to do a 3-3 in his SP were clearly mistakes. If he can do a quad/3-3 in the FS, he should have been able to do it in the SP, so let's not chalk that up to him being not healthy enough. I don't get why when Plushenko makes mistakes it's because he's not healthy enough, but when other skaters make mistakes they're mistakes.
    And I don't get this. At all. Who are these people? Who will ONLY allow Plushenko's injuries to affect his skating - but NO ONE else's? Do you mean like - ever?

    Unlike you I cannot speak for hordes of unknown people - whoever they are. I can only speak for myself. If I hear that a skater is injured/is coming back from injury, I certainly take that into full consideration when assessing their skating. When I heard that Alissa was injured - after having seen that horrible Worlds' FS, I thought: "Oh, that was why!" When I heard that Denis had been struggling with injuries last year, I assumed that those helped to explain his poor performances in the autumn. Morgan Cipres is coming back from an injury this weekend at TEB, and I'm certainly curious to see how it will affect James/Cipres. If they have a considerably worse performance than they used to last year, I for one will certainly consider that it may be due to that, and being rusty.

    Now, of course skaters can have poor performances unrelated to injuries. To take some of my favourite skaters as examples, if you will. Brian - who is second in my affections only to Plushy - had a terrible performance at the last Olympics. I don't know of any injury that had caused it. He himself said he was not "mentally ready" for the competition. Liza - who is "my" skater among the young ladies, should you ever want to know - certainly had injuries and growth related issues last year - but they do not serve to explain why she will skate a bad SP, only to be followed by a terrific LP. Time and time again. She herself acknowledges that the problem is that of nerves.

    So, again, I honestly don't know, don't understand, don't "get" who these people are to whom you refer? So I cannot make sweeping judgements about them, nor will I try to defend them. I can only speak for myself. And to me, what you claim is utterly... bizarre. We discuss injuries and their relation to skaters' performances on a regular basis on this forum, surely?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekiwi View Post
    I read an article where they interviewed Alexei Yagudin about the upcoming Olympics and his thoughts on Plushy competing. Yagudin said 'Why? Why would he want to do it?' That says it all. All these talk of 'avoiding competitions, allowing the body to heal' is an embarrassment, it says one thing - his body can't do it anymore. If he is a true athlete and confident about his own skating and his programs are competent enough, then he should have the confident to face any competitors. For example,this coming weekend Tropee Eric Bompard - Chan, Han Yan, Yuzuru all thrown together. I wish Plushy would retire graciously with fans retaining great memories of him and not this farce that is forced into our memories!!

    You know, Yagudin isn't a gentleman with Plushy despite Plushy always praises him. In last year Yag participated in Plushy's anniversary show, but he didn't want at first, but after he changed his mind. Probably because they payed enough money for him. I'm sure he is a little bit envy for Plushy's fame, popularity, money and longevity. (Yes, I know he had a very serious reason why he finished the skating.) Thus that is absolute irrelevant for me what he said on Plush and his career.

    Plus if Plushy skates in anywhere, you can see full filled arenas. If you miss this article, the international media reactions to Plushy's come back
    http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/656945

    and this is an Italian fan's blog, who travelled to Riga http://evgeniplushenkoitalia.blogspo...ce-contro.html

    AT VOLVO CUP PLUSHENKO WINS AGAINST HIMSELF - REPORT
    Plushenko won the Volvo Open Cup. And this is no surprise so far. But the proof of strong character given on this occasion by Evgeni has few exemples in the history of sport and deserves to be underlined.

    To understand it it's necessary to remember what has already been said, but perhaps many do not really realize what kind of a psychological impact certain factors may have on an athlete who is nothing but a 30 years old boy.
    The last experience in competition was psychologically heavy for Evgeni. Forced since the recent European Champs to forego profitable show to undergo pioneering surgery for athletes which its final success is not certain yet. A surgery that left a large scar clearly visible. He had to defend himself from the unbelievable accusation of a fake surgery made (according haters) only to justify his withdrawal from the competition with pride. He had to read articles about the collapse of the Tsar (fell on a jump after 8 years!!) .
    Moreover, he had to fight against himself to find the strength to start to train again and overcome moments of discomfort while many thought he was finished as an athlete.
    And again, thanks also to him, perhaps ,ISU Regulation after Vancouver has been changed and the level of men's skating improved considerably. The quads are an essential element to achieve the top positions.
    In addition, the Olympics at home is fast approaching.

    The pressure due to all these reasons, it is huge and he decides that his first competition it's gonna be a level B one, the ISU Volvo Cup in Riga, in fact.
    And here we are then, the day of the SP. We are watching practice where we see him to perform quadruple jumps. We prepare ourselves confidently for the comp. The arena is small and there are few spots therefore we take our seats. Many Russians in the audience. Channel One Russia is following him since months in his Olympic preparation and it's there too. The competition is about to start and the arena's full. It 's time for the warm up. He is pale and under a big tension. He tries the jumps. The last one to leave the ice. We have great expectations. The memory of that program we saw in Pinzolo it's still clear in our minds. We are convinced that it is one of the most intense and beautiful programs he ever performed. The costume is brand new, weirdly clear coloured . The notes of "A Girl Like you" start but the quad doesn't come out. The distribution of the jumps ,the choreography and, most of all, the wonderful sequence of steps are different from those in our memories. It has, however, already been announced that the programs would have been performed in a kind of an " economy version ". Evgeni said in an interview to be very nervous. We meet him later, he is tired but anyway he greets us. He tells us that he's fine.

    The next morning, at FP practice in a frozen arena, he comes, more than focused, he looks at no one. We are raised. We have already seen that sight and that grit before the won competitions. The sight he didn't showed in Zagreb... Quad trials, hints of choreography. 20 minutes later he gets out. He stops to sign autographs with a smile. Meanwhile we read various comments about his SP, a program which is not at its level, and comments which shows no sympathy for him. But we focus on the evening competition. We take our seats very soon. We thought the arena was full the night before, but we were wrong. Now is really full at almost its limit, many people standing on their feet . The Russian television shows up . We see flowers within the audience. There is Ari Zakarian . There is also Vakhtang Murvanidze , Plushenko's friend since ages, to support him. In the arena it's breathable an incredible atmosphere of great expectation .
    The warm-up of the last group begins . Evgeni enters the ice skating at incredible speed as usual. He's really under tension, focused. It's hard to describe the audience of that night, it is like they got warned about his difficult time and tried to support him warmly, with shouts and applauses. He makes a small grimace. To further complicate the situation, a cuff of his costume breaks. He controls that nothing has fallen on the ice, struggling to fix the sleeve. We are in tension with him. The warm-up ends. We look at the next skater without a lot of attention. Finally it is his turn to run up that program , "The best of Plushenko ," the Mishin’s idea, which we are very much fascinated about. Silence falls in the full arena. First notes and we have a sinking heart while recognizing St.Petersburg 300 . No time to evoke the emotions of one of our favorite shows that Evgeni landed the 4T. We relax . Ok, now everything's gonna be better. Immediately a 3A and, in the second half of the program, he landed 5 jumps including another 3A in combination. No mistakes on the jumps, just a few deviations from what the planned, but here these are just details.

    However, we follow with great curiosity the music too. After SPT 300 notes changes and are now those of Tribute to Nijinsky , the absolute favorite program by his fans. Followed by The Godfather, Tango Roxanne and we can not avoid to explode with joy to the sequence of steps of Tosca Fantasy. To finish an incredibly intense Adagio. But the masterpiece is not finished because Plushenko extracted from the cylinder an interpretation among the best ever seen. In his own words: "I skated the last step sequenze with a smile and emotionally." Mishin later says: "I think Evgeni had never skated before with such level of expression, with such maturity of gesture and with such artistic vision." It’s the apotheosis, and when the program ends , Evgeni dissolves the accumulated tension repeatedly beating his hand on the ice as he was saying to himself: I made it ! The reaction of the whole arena is no possible to be described. We have seen a thousand of times the audience to explode for him , but this time it's different. It's like as if this small and intimate arena had understood his tension, it suffered along the way with him and as if now it's sharing his same joy. Evgeni feels this affection. His hand goes to his heart to thank each and one in the public and with both his hands he draws a heart . Now he smiles. He skates for his passion and for his audience. They are all standing, it's a rain of flowers and puppets. The cheers are endless, he can not even get out of the ice because from the stands they ask for autographs. There are some people who thank him. At the end the total score is 263.25, his personal best . Evgeni made it, he " broke the ice " with competitions.

    After the live sight of such a technical level and artistic expression , in addition to his typical charisma, we sadly thought about the great loss that figure skating it's no other way gonna be suffering after the retirement from sport of the unique and unrepeatable Tsar .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ni6gOLbrU


    I'm always surprised at how little information there is about him on N-A.
    

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekiwi View Post
    he is not skating with the speed he used to, entrance into jumps are laboured, the jumps lacked breathe and height, choreography/footwork completely missing, upper body is stiff. I am sorry, PCS of 42.70 is overmarked and really marks given for reputation! Even his SP
    Since Plushenko skated at Volvo cup, there's a general panic and people keep making comments that have no relation with reality. Have you really watched the programs or you make comments based on the general impression you have on Plushenko?
    Based on he actually skated, I'd be curious to know which of the entrances into jumps is labored and which jump lacks height and whateverelse.
    And of course he has footwork that was actually considered level 4 and definitely there is concept of the program & choreography even if you don't like it...
    As for upper body, Plushenko has never and will never skate like Takahashi or Chan or Abbot because he comes for Russian school of skating where they teach a different style than the North American style. He always skated with a very straight back and I think his posture and carriage are wonderful.
    It is nice to have different styles in skating and it's saddening to see that everybody's now adopting the American style.
    Look at Fernandez. He totally has embraced the American type (posture, choreography, interpretation) and, frankly, I don't like him anymore.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by amber68 View Post
    Since Plushenko skated at Volvo cup, there's a general panic and people keep making comments that have no relation with reality. Have you really watched the programs or you make comments based on the general impression you have on Plushenko?
    Based on he actually skated, I'd be curious to know which of the entrances into jumps is labored and which jump lacks height and whateverelse.
    And of course he has footwork that was actually considered level 4 and definitely there is concept of the program & choreography even if you don't like it...
    As for upper body, Plushenko has never and will never skate like Takahashi or Chan or Abbot because he comes for Russian school of skating where they teach a different style than the North American style. He always skated with a very straight back and I think his posture and carriage are wonderful.
    It is nice to have different styles in skating and it's saddening to see that everybody's now adopting the American style.
    Look at Fernandez. He totally has embraced the American type (posture, choreography, interpretation) and, frankly, I don't like him anymore.
    I agree he skates in Russian style, what I like it, and this the reason why I don't like too much Fernandez. He became a North-American skater.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icekiwi View Post
    I agree with CanadianSkaterGuy and a few others on this thread that 'there is no way, if 'legitimate' judging is applied that Plushy's skating & choreography is close to Chan, Hanyu, Daisuke and even jump wise, to the likes of Tatsuki, Han Yan or Fernandez. I have been following this entire series, was a big Plushy fan during his OGM days and have watched his Volvo Cup skate, in all honesty, he is not skating with the speed he used to, entrance into jumps are laboured, the jumps lacked breathe and height, choreography/footwork completely missing, upper body is stiff. I am sorry, PCS of 42.70 is overmarked and really marks given for reputation! Even his SP at Euro Champs 2013 PCS was way overscored. He had 41 fpr PCS, I believe and Florent Amodio had 42 (based on memory), in all honesty his dance moves are no where near the complexity of Florent's. You know what, it is painful watching Plushy skate. It is even more painful, knowing the judges are marking him on reputation and undermarking the better skating /choreography of younger guys just because they haven't garnered a reputation yet!! The only outcry is putting people of watching figure skating beause they know marks are rigged - hence empty stadiums.

    I read an article where they interviewed Alexei Yagudin about the upcoming Olympics and his thoughts on Plushy competing. Yagudin said 'Why? Why would he want to do it?' That says it all. All these talk of 'avoiding competitions, allowing the body to heal' is an embarrassment, it says one thing - his body can't do it anymore. If he is a true athlete and confident about his own skating and his programs are competent enough, then he should have the confident to face any competitors. For example,this coming weekend Tropee Eric Bompard - Chan, Han Yan, Yuzuru all thrown together. I wish Plushy would retire graciously with fans retaining great memories of him and not this farce that is forced into our memories!!
    Empty stadiums? Have you ever seen empty seats when Plushenko is competing? People traveled to Riga just to see his LP, they applied for visas in the last minutes. They looked happy, no pain at all.
    Regarding Yagudin's opinion, he use to change it all the time, one day he says Plushenko is a fool because he wants to come back, next day that he is an outstanding athlete, etc. Yagudin lives his life as he wants, Plushenko has the same right.

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