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Thread: Plushenko Withdraws from Cup of Russia Grand Prix

  1. #106
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Plushenko frequently doubles his last jumping pass especially when he doesnt have pressure to win or something. Even in Olys 2006. Either due to lack of focus or tiredeness, I dont think he doubles a salcow due to injury or no preparation. That goes for most skaters.
    Last edited by seniorita; 11-18-2013 at 04:15 AM.

  2. #107
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    Of all his jumps Plushy's always had the most trouble with the Salchow. Even at his peak he was swinging it a lot and doubling it every now and again.

    I mean, I don't blame him, the Salchow is the most Evil Jump Ever Invented, but it is weird.

  3. #108
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I can practically see "the reason he made errors/didn't medal in Sochi is because he wasn't healthy enough after all." posts starting to be drafted.
    You are wrong..He said he will go to Sochi if he will be in very good shape..if he will able to skate on both competitions..

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Due to not being in top form, due it being planned as a double, or due to him legitimately making an error?
    That was an error. Plushy said in an interview.

    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Of all his jumps Plushy's always had the most trouble with the Salchow. Even at his peak he was swinging it a lot and doubling it every now and again.
    Yes, he did it not once, but Mishin and a young skater of Mishin's team said Plushy has 4S. I can't wait to see it...

  4. #109
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    Well, if Mishin and one of Mishin's team say it, then it must be true!

    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    You are wrong..He said he will go to Sochi if he will be in very good shape..if he will able to skate on both competitions..
    Okay. But if he goes to Sochi and happens to perform poorly with errors like the tripled quad or 2S, I would hope that people don't chalk that up to him not being healthy enough.

    It's so weird that two of the best jumpers ever, Plushenko and Asada, have trouble with their triple salchows (one of the easier jumps).

    I would love for Evgeni to land a 4S though in Sochi... after coming back from injury in the final stages of your career, and landing 4S for the first time in competition (and 3 quads in competition for the first time) for him would be surreal.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Well, if Mishin and one of Mishin's team say it, then it must be true!



    Okay. But if he goes to Sochi and happens to perform poorly with errors like the tripled quad or 2S, I would hope that people don't chalk that up to him not being healthy enough.

    It's so weird that two of the best jumpers ever, Plushenko and Asada, have trouble with their triple salchows (one of the easier jumps).

    I would love for Evgeni to land a 4S though in Sochi... after coming back from injury in the final stages of your career, and landing 4S for the first time in competition (and 3 quads in competition for the first time) for him would be surreal.
    If he makes all those mistakes in the future it might be because of injury! I said I didn't all the doubles in the past were because injury. His double Turin and his double in COR 2009 I don't believe were injury related. He blamed his tripled quad in 2010 Russian nationals on the ice. But in the future I don't know what's because of injury!

    I just don't want to hear like you don't want to hear any mistake is injury related that him not competing at all is because of fear of not medaling at all! That's what I don't want to hear!

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Well, if Mishin and one of Mishin's team say it, then it must be true!



    Okay. But if he goes to Sochi and happens to perform poorly with errors like the tripled quad or 2S, I would hope that people don't chalk that up to him not being healthy enough.

    It's so weird that two of the best jumpers ever, Plushenko and Asada, have trouble with their triple salchows (one of the easier jumps).

    I would love for Evgeni to land a 4S though in Sochi... after coming back from injury in the final stages of your career, and landing 4S for the first time in competition (and 3 quads in competition for the first time) for him would be surreal.
    Eh, you are so annoying CSG! I don't believe that you don't understand.. I would like to see any other skater, who can do it, what Plushy did in Riga. He didn't compete for 10 month.. For ex Chan at SC or Fernadez at NHK had worse TES than Plushy, despite their had no surgery.. But I finish this pointless debate.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Okay. But if he goes to Sochi and happens to perform poorly with errors like the tripled quad or 2S, I would hope that people don't chalk that up to him not being healthy enough.
    If Plushenko skates with no errors or multiple errors , no fall or ten falls in Sochi, whats the point of why he did so, it will be his last ever competition and will close his carreer at the Olympic Games of his country, who cares if he doubles the salcow there.
    I only hope he would go there.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Well, if Mishin and one of Mishin's team say it, then it must be true!



    Okay. But if he goes to Sochi and happens to perform poorly with errors like the tripled quad or 2S, I would hope that people don't chalk that up to him not being healthy enough.

    ...

    I would love for Evgeni to land a 4S though in Sochi... after coming back from injury in the final stages of your career, and landing 4S for the first time in competition (and 3 quads in competition for the first time) for him would be surreal.
    I don't get it, why are you so bent on deciding right now what would be the causes of a possible hypothetical situation in the future? And who are you to say what other people should--in the future--think in case of that possible hypothetical situation in the future?

    P. S. I rather doubt that he'll do three quads in the LP. Because that is what you mean by "3 quads in competition for the first time", right?

  9. #114
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    Some have noted that he plans a 4S and two 4Ts, so that's what I'm referring to.

    The hypothetical situation in the future is based off the comments people are making now. I don't think any skater would ever want to use injury as a crutch, so I for one find it annoying that fans do so. When Chan or Kostner falls, nobody says it's due to injury, or blames the ice. I'm suggesting that people objectively treat all skaters with the same standard. Just because a skater has had surgeries and was amazingly consistent in the past doesn't make them immune to criticism now. I'm glad people are saying the 2S was an error, but not everyone is saying the tripled quad is. Like I said, if I suggested that Chan's tripled quad in his Skate Canada SP was because he wasn't in top shape, people would be all over me. Some skaters have off days or they completely mess up the timing going into their jumps, thus tripling them. Even somebody as consistent in the past as Plushenko doesn't always maintain that consistency, especially with an older body that's gone through surgeries.

    If Plushenko triples a quad, I firmly believe that it's because he made an error just like any other male skater who tripled a quad. If he was truly injured to the point at being unable to execute a quad or 3-3, then he wouldn't have done one the day after at Volvo. When Elvis started missing quads and axels towards the end of his amateur career, nobody ever said "Oh, that's just due to his injury, since he's easily landed them with great consistency in the past". I acknowledge injury is a factor, but it's not an excuse.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Some have noted that he plans a 4S and two 4Ts, so that's what I'm referring to.

    The hypothetical situation in the future is based off the comments people are making now. I don't think any skater would ever want to use injury as a crutch, so I for one find it annoying that fans do so. When Chan or Kostner falls, nobody says it's due to injury, or blames the ice. I'm suggesting that people objectively treat all skaters with the same standard. Just because a skater has had surgeries and was amazingly consistent in the past doesn't make them immune to criticism now. I'm glad people are saying the 2S was an error, but not everyone is saying the tripled quad is. Like I said, if I suggested that Chan's tripled quad in his Skate Canada SP was because he wasn't in top shape, people would be all over me. Some skaters have off days or they completely mess up the timing going into their jumps, thus tripling them. Even somebody as consistent in the past as Plushenko doesn't always maintain that consistency, especially with an older body that's gone through surgeries.

    If Plushenko triples a quad, I firmly believe that it's because he made an error just like any other male skater who tripled a quad. If he was truly injured to the point at being unable to execute a quad or 3-3, then he wouldn't have done one the day after at Volvo. When Elvis started missing quads and axels towards the end of his amateur career, nobody ever said "Oh, that's just due to his injury, since he's easily landed them with great consistency in the past". I acknowledge injury is a factor, but it's not an excuse.
    May I ask you to stop trying to bait-and-switch between different situations (e. g. 2013 Euros and Volvo Cup), or trying to set up strawmen (despite the fact that people have already pointed them out several times already)? Injuries affect a skater's condition to various extents at different times, so sometimes it is reasonable to surmise that a mistake was in large part due to injury, sometimes it isn't. And I don't know where you get your crystal ball so that you can determine what causes and effects occur in the hypothetical future.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitebamboo View Post
    I don't get it, why are you so bent on deciding right now what would be the causes of a possible hypothetical situation in the future? And who are you to say what other people should--in the future--think in case of that possible hypothetical situation in the future?

    P. S. I rather doubt that he'll do three quads in the LP. Because that is what you mean by "3 quads in competition for the first time", right?
    I agree. I will use the evidence at the time to decide whether or not a jump error was a mistake or because of injury. Not say now if he doubles a triple or falls it was because he had a lapse In focus or like euros 2013 he lost feeling in his leg.

  12. #117
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    He could also maybe make an error because of the ghost of Ulrich Salchow sweeping the arena upside down chasing him for all the doubled Salchows he has ever done.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitebamboo View Post
    May I ask you to stop trying to bait-and-switch between different situations (e. g. 2013 Euros and Volvo Cup), or trying to set up strawmen (despite the fact that people have already pointed them out several times already)? Injuries affect a skater's condition to various extents at different times, so sometimes it is reasonable to surmise that a mistake was in large part due to injury, sometimes it isn't. And I don't know where you get your crystal ball so that you can determine what causes and effects occur in the hypothetical future.
    Note my use of conditionals... "But if he goes to Sochi and happens to perform poorly with errors like the tripled quad or 2S, I would hope that people don't chalk that up to him not being healthy enough." I never said anything will happen or not happen. But given the past comments made when Plushenko has made errors, the sentiment seems to be that he wasn't healthy enough to avoid errors - some practically implying it's inconceivable to make errors now based on his stellar consistency from years ago. However when other skaters make errors, people attribute that to the skater being at fault since they have no injury to use as reason for their errors. My sentiment extends to fans of all skaters, not just Plushenko. When a skater does well, give kudos to them. When they do poorly, maybe accept that they did poorly instead of trying to justify the poor performance.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I agree. I will use the evidence at the time to decide whether or not a jump error was a mistake or because of injury. Not say now if he doubles a triple or falls it was because he had a lapse In focus or like euros 2013 he lost feeling in his leg.
    My question is: while in one post-Euros interview he says he made a mistake on the jump and explicitly said it wasn't due to his injury and might have rushed the timing of the jump, you dismiss that. But when he said he lost feeling in his leg, all of a sudden what he says is now legit to you? Obviously the latter fits more in line with this paradigm that you and his ubers view him as, and thus you dismiss the probability of him making an error on the jump even when he himself admits it.

  15. #120
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    I don't really see what the argument is about. When you are battling injuries you make more mistakes.

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