Skating is art, if you let it be.
Difficult to execute? Uncomfortable attempting? IT'S A COMPETITION.
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
While I agree too much difficulty just for the sake of difficulty is bad for the sport (REALLY bad in the case of ugly and/or time-consuming CoP spins/footwork), a complete set of Triple jumps should be more valued than it currently is. I don't find your comparison about Quads to be accurate at all. Asking Ladies to have all of their Triples up through Lutz is like asking Men to have all of their Triples up through Axel...which they ALL do, if they ever want to compete at a high level.
The isu won't change because flutzing can start out really being a lutz! Intent can be really there for lutz. Sotnikova for one always and never ever does not Flutz but she would like to do a lutz and her flip is so horrendous and awful and she can not do a flip properly but Flutz is no problem so she is not doing a flip her lutz is a Flutz because she can't hold that edge but she is not doing a flip! So they need flutzing and it's not a flip it's a lutz with a mistake.
But the rules for senior competition apply to all entrants in all senior competitions -- those who are already competing "at a high level," those who aspire to get there but haven't achieved that level yet, and those who will never get to elite level but who can qualify as senior level and -- because of age limits -- may not qualify as junior.
Originally Posted by Blades of Passion
If you want to REQUIRE (not just reward, but penalize and shame anyone who can't achieve) all different triple jumps at the elite level, then you need different rules for elite competition than for other "senior" competitions.
Already in the last couple years there are minimum technical scores for ISU championships, but not for other senior internationals, so there is precedent of different rules for different senior events.
So, for those who are in favor of such a requirement --
How would you word the rule? What exactly would be the requirement, how would it be determined whether the skater complied, and what would be the penalty for failing to do so?
Which competitions would it apply to and which would be exempt?
What happens if an excellent skater is having trouble with one or two jump takeoffs, perhaps because of temporary injury, intentionally omits those takeoffs from her program or ends up popping or doubling those jumps in competition, and takes the penalty, but everything else is so good that she earns the highest total score anyway?
Bona Fide Member
Here is what is cool about a Lutz jump. Thanks to that outside edge, you are curving THIS way on the ice, then suddenly you pop into the air and you are spinning THAT way. If you "release the counter-rotation prematurely" by rocking over to the wrong edge (thank you gkelly), then … meh. There's no Lutz in your Lutz.
True, it is easy to tell from the set-up and entrance what jump was intended. But in sports you do not score points for intentions, only for execution. As for the argument that we want skaters to keep on working on their Lutz to develop good technique (rather than to bail with a double Axel), you do not teach good technique by rewarding bad technique.
I don't see why a 1.5 reduction in base value for a wrong edge take-off would be excessive. That still gives you more points than a triple Salchow or toe loop. And double that penalty for a flutz that doesn't even try.