Men SP - 2013 Trophee Eric Bompard | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Men SP - 2013 Trophee Eric Bompard

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
I add my thanks to Mao88 for finding and posting Jason's sp performance with sound. I suppose Prince has people simply protecting his brand, especially on Youtube. Jason said in a recent interview with Absolute Skating that the symbol on the back of his sp jacket is a modified Prince symbol, which was modified because of Prince's copyright. Jeez, if Prince only knew and loved figure skating, maybe he'd give Jason some slack and feel so honored about Jason and Rohene using his music which in fact exposes it to a larger audience. French skater Mae Berenice Meite is also using the same music by Prince for her sp this season and it works well for her, despite she doesn't interpret it as well as Jason does.

Also, btw, I expressly want to apologize for borrowing Mrs. P's word "inferior" to describe the challenges Oda faces re musicality and artistry. It actually isn't really fair to term a skater "inferior" especially not at this level. So, no Mrs. P, I don't agree with you that the judges consider Oda "inferior to the top skaters." In fact, the judges obviously are blown away by Oda's jumping ability and have a tendency IMHO to sometimes overscore him on some areas of PCS where he can definitely make more improvements.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Also, btw, I expressly want to apologize for borrowing Mrs. P's word "inferior" to describe the challenges Oda faces re musicality and artistry. It actually isn't really fair to term a skater "inferior" especially not at this level. So, no Mrs. P, I don't agree with you that the judges consider Oda "inferior to the top skaters." In fact, the judges obviously are blown away by Oda's jumping ability and have a tendency IMHO to sometimes overscore him on some areas of PCS where he can definitely make more improvements.

Now you're picking on my vocabulary?! Oh geez. :rolleye:

I (and others) get your point, do you really need to need to pick apart my posts to do so?! :no:

FWIW, I used the word inferior, per this definition: "lower in rank, status, or quality."

Looking at the raw scores, Oda's PCS is lower than Chan, Hanyu, Takahasahi and Fernandez (on a good day). So I think my use of the word inferior was not out of line.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Now you're picking on my vocabulary?! Oh geez.

I (and others) get your point, do you really need to need to pick apart my posts to make your point?! :no:

No, no. I simply did not want to describe any skater as "inferior." And I expressed my apology for happening to borrow such a description. Not trying to put you down. Sorry you see it that way.

It's semantics and can be seen as such. I was surprised that you said you felt the judges considered his skills inferior to other top skaters. I don't think they do because when he skates clean, his PCS are generally high. I'm sure they don't think he's as strong in some aspects, but anyone who is able to score above 85 consistently is not being looked on as inferior IMHO.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
No, no. I simply did not want to describe any skater as "inferior." And I expressed my apology for happening to borrow such a description. Not trying to put you down. Sorry you see it that way.

You could have fooled me.

Again, I don't agree with you that the judges are dazzled by Oda's jumping ability that he gets these sparkling PCS scores. He tends to score better in TES than PCS.

If you're going to ask people to acknowledge your opinion, the least you can do is not pooh off others.

It's semantics and can be seen as such. I was surprised that you said you felt the judges considered his skills inferior to other top skaters. I don't think they do because when he skates clean, his PCS are generally high. I'm sure they don't think he's as strong in some aspects, but anyone who is able to score above 85 consistently is not being looked on as inferior IMHO.


For the record, Oda has scored 85+ just once this season, at Nebelhorn Trophy. And he did not score high PCS there even though his TES was far and above the rest of the competition. His PCS was 38.

Compare that to Yuzuru, who had completely missed his 3A at Finlandia. He scored 42.

At Skate Canada, Nobunari scored 80 overall and scored 38 again in PCS, which below Yuzuru (40) and Patrick (44). Jeremy also scored better than Nobu in PCS as well for an error-ridden program (39)

At Skate Canada last year, Nobunari got 37 in PCS, below Patrick (42) who was not and Javier (39) who was.

So please cite an example where Nobunari gets this super awesome PCS....
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
You could have fooled me.

Again, I don't agree with you that the judges are dazzled by Oda's jumping ability that he gets these sparkling PCS scores. He tends to score better in TES than PCS.

If you're going to ask people to acknowledge your opinion, the least you can do is not pooh off others.

Like I added to my previous post, it's semantics. And again, I was correcting my reference (even though I borrowed it from you). No biggie in any case and I did apologize, but I guess that makes no difference to you. Again, semantically speaking, I didn't say Oda's PCS scores are "sparkling," just IMO often over-rated.

As a matter of fact, when I state how I feel, sometimes others who disagree tend to exaggerate or jump to conclusions (but yeah that often happens on skating boards). I try to be thoughtful and fair, but yes also blunt and straightforward, which apparently some people find irksome. In any case, I don't ask people to acknowledge my opinions or agree with my opinions. I simply state them without the expectation that everyone else has to have the same perceptions. That's impossible. I don't "pooh off" others opinions. I simply state my own and when challenged, I respond to further clarify my impressions. If some feel "poohed off," oh well. It's figure skating and no one is going to ever agree with each other all of the time. No matter what I say, it seems someone is likely to feel "poohed-off." That's the way the cookie crumbles.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Like I added to my previous post, it's semantics. And again, I was correcting my reference (even though I borrowed it from you). No biggie in any case and I did apologize, but I guess that makes no difference to you. Again, semantically speaking, I didn't say Oda's PCS scores are "sparkling," just IMO often over-rated.

As a matter of fact, when I state how I feel, sometimes others who disagree tend to exaggerate or jump to conclusions (but yeah that often happens on skating boards). I try to be thoughtful and fair, but yes also blunt and straightforward, which apparently some people find irksome. In any case, I don't ask people to acknowledge my opinions or agree with my opinions. I simply state them without the expectation that everyone else has to have the same perceptions. That's impossible. I don't "pooh off" others opinions. I simply state my own and when challenged, I respond to further clarify my impressions. If some feel "poohed off," oh well. It's figure skating and no one is going to ever agree with each other all of the time. No matter what I say, it seems someone is likely to feel "poohed-off." That's the way the cookie crumbles.

And I'm trying to explain, with data, etc, why I believe the judges have scored him appropriately in PCS. Instead you are accusing me of semantics, or using the wrong vocabulary or misinterpreting your opinion, when I'm trying to respond to it.

I get people have different opinion then mine. I'm fine with the fact that you don't care for Nobu's skating. LIke you, I am also responding to the opinions you keep challenging.

And in fact, I had given up on the discussion until you apologized for borrowing my "improper use" of the word inferior regarding Oda. Given that that ship (of discussing Oda's PCS) had sailed a few pages ago, I'm not sure why you felt so compelled to point it out all of a sudden.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
...

For the record, Oda has scored 85+ just once this season, at Nebelhorn Trophy. And he did not score high PCS there even though his TES was far and above the rest of the competition. His PCS was 38.

Compare that to Yuzuru, who had completely missed his 3A at Finlandia. He scored 42.

At Skate Canada, Nobunari scored 80 overall and scored 38 again in PCS, which below Yuzuru (40) and Patrick (44). Jeremy also scored better than Nobu in PCS as well for an error-ridden program (39)

At Skate Canada last year, Nobunari got 37 in PCS, below Patrick (42) who was not and Javier (39) who was.

So please cite an example where Nobunari gets this super awesome PCS....

Hey thanks for the numbers corrections. When I've looked at Oda's PCS in specific categories at specific events vs some other skaters, yes I feel that Oda is often overly scored on transitions, choreography, and interpretation. No biggie and you are right that Oda was not at TEB so this might be more appropriate to be addressed in a general discussion either about the men or the scoring. Again, I have issues in general with the scoring system, so I find the numbers too often from event to event are inconsistent and in my opinion, ultimately not very meaningful. Others who grew up with the sport under the new system or who are infatuated with examining the numbers will differ in their views. It's all relative.

Despite the fact the 6.0 was a flawed system, I feel the sport should have tried harder to work on the problems with that scoring system without throwing out their 6.0 brand completely. Apparently in order to add more excitement and punch to the numbers and to try and make them more meaningful, the ISU instituted the "personal best" descriptor and have now been experimenting with having the lead tech score superimposed on the screen as each skater goes through their elements. Maybe that's exciting and adds some tension and flavor to the proceedings for some fans, but I find the numbers box a bit distracting while trying to enjoy a skater's performance. Oh well.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Hey thanks for the numbers corrections. When I've looked at Oda's PCS in specific categories at specific events vs some other skaters, yes I feel that Oda is often overly scored on transitions, choreography, and interpretation. No biggie and you are right that Oda was not at TEB so this might be more appropriate to be addressed in a general discussion either about the men or the scoring. Again, I have issues in general with the scoring system, so I find the numbers too often from event to event are inconsistent and in my opinion, ultimately not very meaningful. Others who grew up with the sport under the new system or who are infatuated with examining the numbers will differ in their views. It's all relative.

Despite the fact the 6.0 was a flawed system, I feel the sport should have tried harder to work on the problems with that scoring system without throwing out their 6.0 brand completely. Apparently in order to add more excitement and punch to the numbers and to try and make them more meaningful, the ISU instituted the "personal best" descriptor and have now been experimenting with having the lead tech score superimposed on the screen as each skater goes through their elements. Maybe that's exciting and adds some tension and flavor to the proceedings for some fans, but I find the numbers box a bit distracting while trying to enjoy a skater's performance. Oh well.

Fair enough. Let's move on. We have different views on the scoring system and how others are scored, so yes perhaps its worth discussion in The Edge or something.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
^^ ETA: Yep, I posted the below before seeing your above. In fairness, we may aside from some of the issues grappled with here agree on any number of things about figure skating.

...
And in fact, I had given up on the discussion until you apologized for borrowing my "improper use" of the word inferior regarding Oda. Given that that ship (of discussing Oda's PCS) had sailed a few pages ago, I'm not sure why you felt so compelled to point it out all of a sudden.

Yep, nothing I can do aside from apologizing for your taking offense. I would have addressed it immediately a few pages back but I stepped away for a few hours. The word stayed on my mind and I felt the need to make a correction. Why take it personally?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Yep, nothing I can do aside from apologizing for your taking offense. I would have addressed it immediately a few pages back but I stepped away for a few hours. The word stayed on my mind and I felt the need to make a correction. Why take it personally?

It just seem out of the blue and it did seem that you were spitting hairs over my verbiage to make some sort of point, something I felt that was unnecessary.

You're right it's semantics---even if you don't use the word inferior, you have already established that Oda's skating skills, musciality, etc. are not on the same level of other skaters, so again I'm not sure why you try to differentiate from my assertion by stating that you wouldn't use the word inferior to referring to Oda or other skaters.

In any case, it's water under the bridge now.

Sorry for clogging up the thread folks. Let's talk more about Patrick, Yuzuru, Jason and Hanee! :) (I love that nickname for Han, who came up with it?)
 

mercury

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Some great skating from the top 3 in the men's yesterday. Looking forward to some clean programs, especially from them, tonight (not an easy task in the men nowadays). For Han, I'd be happy he finish his LP, if at all!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Mrs P., your desire to send Jason to Sochi so he can do the short in the Team Event is getting further validation!

I believe that others pointed out that idea, not me! That said. I would love Jason to go to Sochi and he's making a good case of it now.

Of course, there are two programs...so he's hoping for a successful FS tomorrow!
 

wordsworthgirl

Medalist
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
I believe that others pointed out that idea, not me! That said. I would love Jason to go to Sochi and he's making a good case of it now.

Of course, there are two programs...so he's hoping for a successful FS tomorrow!

Oh Mrs P I was sure it was you- you argued for Jason/Max as a good short/long program team in the team event. I give you credit anyway! :)

GO JASON IN THE LONG!
 
Top