Can Adelina Sotnikova overcome the pressure? (Part 2) | Golden Skate

Can Adelina Sotnikova overcome the pressure? (Part 2)

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
This is a continuation of this old archived thread from last season

Great performance by Sotnikova in the free skate today at TEB. I thought Ashley Wagner's PCS scores were completely ludicrous, and that Sotnikova deserved to win despite the 6 point deficit from the short program. It was a shame that Sotnikova's SP was not as good as it was at the Cup of China, because had it been, then she would have won anyway. I hope today's performance is something of breakthrough for Sotnikova and that she can move on from here to start putting two clean programs together in the same competition. I liked that she converted the 3Z+3T combination to a 3Z+2T, and the 3F+2T+2R combination to a 3F+2T, and that that seemed to make her more confident going into the free program. Its far better to do that and skate clean, than to fall as she has done in the past.

Today's result probably makes Sotnikova the favourite for the 2nd spot on the Russian Olympic team (with Lipnitskaya almost certain to make the team in terms of the 1st spot), especially having beaten Pogorilaya and with Tuktamysheva apparently injured.
 

RABID

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
This is a continuation of this old archived thread from last season

Great performance by Sotnikova in the free skate today at TEB. I thought Ashley Wagner's PCS scores were completely ludicrous, and that Sotnikova deserved to win despite the 6 point deficit from the short program. It was a shame that Sotnikova's SP was not as good as it was at the Cup of China, because had it been, then she would have won anyway. I hope today's performance is something of breakthrough for Sotnikova and that she can move on from here to start putting two clean programs together in the same competition. I liked that she converted the two 3+3 combinations to 3+2 combinations, and that that seemed to make her more confident going into the free program. Its far better to do that and skate clean, than to fall.

Today's result probably makes Sotnikova the favourite for the 2nd spot on the Russian Olympic team (with Lipnitskaya almost certain to make the team in terms of the 1st spot), especially having beaten Pogorilaya and with Tuktamysheva apparently injured.

Geez, the Russians must be kicking themselves even more now for their lackluster performance at last Worlds. To have so much talent and have only two spots to shine... :slink:
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Wagner's PCS were not ludricious. They were barely higher than Sotnikova, and she has a much better choreographed program this year.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Geez, the Russians must be kicking themselves even more now for their lackluster performance at last Worlds. To have so much talent and have only two spots to shine... :slink:

I actually think its worked in their favour having only 2 spots. Its clear that competition from Lipnitskata, Pogorilaya, and Tuktamysheva, is forcing Sotnikova to up her level. Its also evident that both Lipnitskaya and Pogorilaya have gone into this season in determined mood. There is no better way of improving performance levels than competition for places. Better to have 2 skaters in peak shape, than 3 mediocre ones who have not really had to earn their selection.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Adelina is a beautiful skater, my favorite Russian. The only thing she lacks is the consistency Julia has. When the top 3 retire I think Russia will dominate this quad. Although the American girls coming up have incredible talent The Russian girls are already establishing their reputations. The best Americans coming up such as Courtney, Polina and Karen are not competing with the seniors in the big stage yet. Julia bested Akiko. Elena Rodionova could hold her own against Mao and Anna bested the One an only Carolina Kostner. With that said the one Russian skater, I hope makes it to the world podium is Adelina.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Wagner's PCS were not ludricious. They were barely higher than Sotnikova, and she has a much better choreographed program this year.

There is no way that Wagner should have got mid 60's for PCS with that performance. That is the problem with COP/IJS. Technical mistakes such as falls detract from the overall spectacle, and that is rarely refected under COP/IJS.

Wagner's free program is poorly choreographed and Sotnikova's PCS deserved to be far higher than Wagner's
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
I feel for any Russian girls left behind. I can't imagine how would Tuk feel if she won't go to Sochi. Or Julia..They deserve to go:cry:
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
There is no way that Wagner should have got mid 60's for PCS with that performance. That is the problem with COP/IJS. Technical mistake such as falls detract from the overall spectacle and that is rarely refected under COP/IJS.

Wagner did not fall. She had one step-out; the other mistakes were minor and she was appropriately punished for them with GOE. Ashley was committed to her choreography and all of her elements and overall, she gave a strong performance.

Wagner's free program is poorly choreographed and Sotnikova's PCS deserved to be far higher than Wagner's

Wagner's free program has a strong beginning and a strong ending. It does have a rather empty third in the middle, but overall, I will definitely take her program over Sotnikova's, which has some really bizarre hand/arm choreography. I have no idea what Adelina is trying to do out there and how it relates to the music and I'm not sure she knows either. Adelina was way overscored on GOE on her first flip, btw. I was pleased to see Adelina win over Ashley in the FS but also pleased to see Ashley win overall. The results were fine.

Good for Adelina for having a good performance here and making a case for one of the spots on the Russian Olympic team. But robbed? No. Olympic medal contender? I'm not convinced at this time, with the programs that she has, and that flip technique that she has--it's like she's rolling the dice every time. It worked this time but maybe not next time.
 

RABID

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
I actually think its worked in their favour having only 2 spots. Its clear that competition from Lipnitskata, Pogorilaya, and Tuktamysheva, is forcing Sotnikova to up her level. Its also evident that both Lipnitskaya and Pogorilaya have gone into this season in determined mood. There is no better way of improving performance levels than competition for places. Better to have 2 skaters in peak shape, than 3 mediocre ones who have not really had to earn their selection.

OR....it could be just poor timing; last year they weren't there yet and this year they are. They all are, after all, more experienced now.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
There is no way that Wagner should have got mid 60's for PCS with that performance. That is the problem with COP/IJS. Technical mistakes such as falls detract from the overall spectacle, and that is rarely refected under COP/IJS.

Wagner's free program is poorly choreographed and Sotnikova's PCS deserved to be far higher than Wagner's

You call Wagner's free program poorly choreographed, LOL! Of all the women this year she has one of the best put together programs and I am not even a fan of hers. Especialy in comparision to Sotnikova who has strange music cuts, and a lot of weird and meaningless arm movements.

Wagner's technical mistakes were definitely reflected in her PCS. Her PCS would not be almost the same as Sotnikova with a clean performance to their current programs after all, they would be significantly higher (and rightly so).

Good for Sotnikova to have a very strong LP finally, but she was in no way robbed of winning this event. Her short program cost her the victory, as it should be. Wagner didn't skate a perfect LP as Sotnikova did, but it was more than good enough to keep her sizeable lead.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Wagner did not fall. She had one step-out; the other mistakes were minor and she was appropriately punished for them with GOE. Ashley was committed to her choreography and all of her elements and overall, she gave a strong performance.

I was referring to COP and technical mistakes in general, not with particular reference to the individual mistakes made by Wagner in her FS

As for the rest of your comments - its all in the eye of the beholder and we will have agree to disagree
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Ashley's program in the hands of lets say Carolina would be a masterpiece. Ashley doesn't sells this program well JMO
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
I was referring to COP and technical mistakes in general, not with particular reference to the individual mistakes made by Wagner in her FS

Then why would you bring it up in reference to Ashley getting too high PCS if it had no relevance to Ashley's situation and score?

Exactly, and that is only one of the problems. I suspect Wagner's team will rejig the program as the season progresses.

By the way, you haven't explained why Adelina has a better program than Wagner's. In terms of packaging alone, Wagner deserved higher components. Adelina's dress is awful.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Then why would you bring it up in reference to Ashley getting too high PCS if it had no relevance to Ashley's situation and score?

You clearly have completely misunderstood what I was saying. Technical mistakes ruin the overall spectacle of a program, but under COP/IJS, that is often not reflected in the PCS marks. Patrick Chan's FS from the 2013 World Championships is one of the worst examples of this (i.e. despite multiple falls in his programs, his PCS often holds up despite it - which is ridiculous). Ashley Wagner's FS today was another example, although far less extreme. With the mistakes she made in her program today, her PCS marks should have been in the upper 50's. Instead, they were in the mid 60's.

Time to bring back the 6.0 system

In terms of packaging alone, Wagner deserved higher components. Adelina's dress is awful.

That is your very subjective opinion, and one in which many would disagree with. As I said, its in the eye of the beholder. I certainly think Sotnikova's dress is better than Wagner's.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
After the sp where her Flutz dg combo was hit with near unanimous -3 in goe she did some things in the lp that made sense. While not doing 3/3 was a mistake at least she didn't do Flutz dg loop again!

I don't think pressure is the problem. It's a program design that completely ignores her flaws. Why didn't she do a 3 Jump combo? Bad program design. Why do a flip as a start of a 3 jump combo if it means no 3 jump combo? Why give a victory to Wagner with Flutz dg loop in the sp? And then don't Do 3/3 at all in the lp and leave out a jump? These program designs are still extremely poor and need reform.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
In either case I think Sotnikova is definitely not favored to make the team along with Julia. Tuktamysheva is increasingly falling out of the running completely, and Anna showing bigger scoring potential now based on her score here combined with her consistency pushes Elizaveta further behind the 8 ball (note I mean bigger scoring potential than Anna was thought to have previously, not bigger than Elizaveta). If Sotnikova continues to skate even reasonably well though the team will be Julia and Adelina, no question.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I am a big Adelina fan but I am satisfied with today's result. I would have had Ashley's PCS maybe a bit below Adelina's but not enough to drop her to 2nd overall.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
You clearly have completely misunderstood what I was saying. Technical mistakes ruin the overall spectacle of a program, but under COP/IJS, that is often not reflected in the PCS marks. Patrick Chan's FS from the 2013 World Championships is one of the worst examples of this (i.e. despite multiple falls in his programs, his PCS often holds up despite it - which is ridiculous). Ashley Wagner's FS today was another example, although far less extreme. With the mistakes she made in her program today, her PCS marks should have been in the upper 50's. Instead, they were in the mid 60's.

Oh, I did not. Your argument just made no sense. Ashley only had one technical mistake that was glaring, and it wasn't even a fall. She did not have multiple step-outs, she didn't have one fall or multiple falls. Why should her PCS take a dive because of her flutzing (another mistake) or slight two-footing when she still performed her program well? For example, in spite of those mistakes, Ashley's performance had some eye-catching transitions, such as the split jump out of the 2A and the spread eagle into the 3Lo. Hence, there shouldn't be an issue with her TR score remaining relatively high at this competition. I can't think of any transitions by Adelina, though Adelina made fewer mistakes, that fit her program and music as well.

That is your very subjective opinion, and one in which many would disagree with. As I said, its in the eye of the beholder. I certainly think her dress is better than Wagner's.

Of course that's my subjective opinion. But again, you have provided no support for your belief that Adelina has a better program than Wagner. You've only insisted that Wagner's program is poorly choreographed, but no details to support an argument that Adelina's is better.
 
Top