Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 80

Thread: Can Adelina Sotnikova overcome the pressure? (Part 2)

  1. #46
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,673
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Yuzu with mistakes is still a medal contender unlike Sotnikova whose bombing is like going on the ice and going to self destruct
    a clean Yuzu will score very high almost at par or will level with Chan's score
    And sadly Yuzu shouldn't be on par with Chan because his pcs should be lower. Likewise Lipnskayia sould be lower than Carolina's.

  2. #47
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
    Both have benefited from easy fields this year.
    Hey, I appreciate you trying to get some sense into skyfly when it comes to Adelina (albeit I think you're wasting your time and would be better off talking to a wall...), but I don't think you're right with everything you say about Yuzuru here... what weak fields did he supposedly have? He had to go head to head with Patrick twice already! If SC and TEB had weak fields, what was CoC supposed to be? SA didn't look that much stronger than SC either. NHK looked good on paper, but look at what Javier did in the end... additionally, Yuzuru's score at TEB is by over 10 points the highest 2nd place score so far and he would have easily won CoC with it and nearly tied Machidas and Chans scores from SA and SC respectivly. If you want to talk about someone benefiting from an easy competition, look at Han and Kovtun with CoC...
    (But, what I think I have to add: I'm not disagreeing Yuzuru skating bad at SC for his standards. I just don't agree with his supposedly easy fields )

  3. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    And sadly Yuzu shouldn't be on par with Chan because his pcs should be lower. Likewise Lipnskayia sould be lower than Carolina's.
    your a wishful thinker if you think Yuzu cant have the same PCS as Chan
    and you maybe right about Julia for now, but her PCS should still beat skaters like Tuk, Osmond etc whose PCS deserves in the mid 27+ and 57+

  4. #49
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,200
    I think Anna bought out the best in her. She did not want to lose to her.

  5. #50
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20
    your a wishful thinker if you think Yuzu cant have the same PCS as Chan
    As a big, big Yuzuru fan (and fangirly enough to be all squealy and shaky after seeing him at TEB close enough to pinch his cheeks): what the hell? I hate reading this as a fan of him. Maybe, if he continues to work on his SS and has a program like R&J12 again, someday he will get the same PCS. But not now. I'd say in 100% clean he'd win the TES (as he did in the SP), but not the PCS and not overall.

  6. #51
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    2,834
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    no problem, we've seen what happens to Wagner at the end of the season
    she'll run out of steam, Gracie Gold is the No.1 US lady sorry
    You have been saying this for like 2 years now. Why isn't Gracie number 1 already??? Maybe because she's a bigger 'headcase' than Sotnikova, your 'bash her forever' 'headcase' of choice?

  7. #52
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,942
    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Hey, I appreciate you trying to get some sense into skyfly when it comes to Adelina (albeit I think you're wasting your time and would be better off talking to a wall...), but I don't think you're right with everything you say about Yuzuru here... what weak fields did he supposedly have? He had to go head to head with Patrick twice already! (But, what I think I have to add: I'm not disagreeing Yuzuru skating bad at SC for his standards. I just don't agree with his supposedly easy fields )
    Sorry, I should clarify, I was referring to the field at TEB for Hanyu (where the 3rd place skater didn't attempt any quads and had only 1 triple axel in the FS), and the field at CoC for Sotnikova (where the 3rd place skater landed 2 clean triples in her FS).

    By "weak" I mean, not particularly competitive so they were able to nab silver medals. Obviously at Skate Canada, Hanyu had more competition from Oda and almost lost to him, and at TEB Sotnikova had competition from Pogorilaya. I was just pointing out that Hanyu and Sotnikova actually have a lot of similarities to their season with similar successes and problems, however sky_fly seems to think Sotnikova is somehow a headcase when her beloved Hanyu also has his own consistency issues.

    I'll reiterate that I love both Hanyu and Sotnikova, and don't think either are headcases. Another similarity is that they're both pushing for very high technical content even though it doesn't pay off (e.g. Sotnikova's 3-3 in the SP and Hanyu's 4S in the LP), but I still give kudos to them for doing that.

  8. #53
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,580
    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    You have been saying this for like 2 years now. Why isn't Gracie number 1 already??? Maybe because she's a bigger 'headcase' than Sotnikova, your 'bash her forever' 'headcase' of choice?
    But Ashley is "used up" like an old battery, she should be thrown out so Gracie can be the top American.

  9. #54
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,942
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    your a wishful thinker if you think Yuzu cant have the same PCS as Chan
    It is impossible for Hanyu to get 96.50 points for PCS even with a clean skate. His personal best is 85.16. At TEB, his PCS was 81.94. No way he can get 95+ points in PCS by Sochi.

    Again, Chan and Hanyu both skated as well as they can skate in the TEB short program, and yet, Chan's PCS was 3.5 points higher. That in itself proves that Hanyu can't have the same PCS as Chan.

    In the next quadrennial, however, I can picture him eventually clearing 90 points for PCS... if he manages to ever skate a clean long program.

  10. #55
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bucharest, Romania
    Posts
    1,613
    She can do it. But her team needs to maximize her current potential in order to have the best chances. As of this season, her 2A-3T is huge and gets her a lot of points. I am imagining a layout for her like this:

    2A-3T
    3F
    3Lz
    (second part)
    2A-3T
    3Loop-2T-2T/2L - whatever makes her comfortable
    3Loop (and is she misses the first one she can tack the combo here)
    3S

    In this way: she does only a flip in the LP and 2 3Loop which is a very stable jump for her. Plus, she can make up if she miss the first 3Loop. Then, if she flutzes, she'll get a negative GOE on the solo jump, not for an entire combination. This is a layout which she can skate to, realistically, and go clean. I bet the scores will be huge. I don't know why her team is so fixed on her current layout which hasn't paid off yet.

  11. #56
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,942
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    She can do it. But her team needs to maximize her current potential in order to have the best chances. As of this season, her 2A-3T is huge and gets her a lot of points. I am imagining a layout for her like this:

    2A-3T
    3F
    3Lz
    (second part)
    2A-3T
    3Loop-2T-2T/2L - whatever makes her comfortable
    3Loop (and is she misses the first one she can tack the combo here)
    3S

    In this way: she does only a flip in the LP and 2 3Loop which is a very stable jump for her. Plus, she can make up if she miss the first 3Loop. Then, if she flutzes, she'll get a negative GOE on the solo jump, not for an entire combination. This is a layout which she can skate to, realistically, and go clean. I bet the scores will be huge. I don't know why her team is so fixed on her current layout which hasn't paid off yet.
    Her current layout got her a PB in the TEB FS... so I'd say that's paid off. Also, to do two 2A-3T's in a program is asking a lot of a skater. While two 3L's might seem like a good idea on paper, she clearly wants to challenge herself to repeat one of the harder triples, instead of repeat the easy triples.

  12. #57
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bucharest, Romania
    Posts
    1,613
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Her current layout got her a PB in the TEB FS... so I'd say that's paid off. Also, to do two 2A-3T's in a program is asking a lot of a skater.
    She plans a 3Lz-3Loop and a 2A-3T which I think it's harder and less likely to achieve. I was just thinking she should skate to a layout that can have a back up plan because she plans the 3 jump combo on her second flip: if she misses it, the TES will go downhill, and by some way. She loses around 9-10 points there. At least plan it on the first one: doesn't work out, then go with the second one. This is why skaters usually do their combo first in the SP, to have the possibility to repeat it if something goes wrong with the first jump.
    Whatever makes her comfortable, but it must be a smart choice.
    A 3L is 5.1 while a 3F is 5.3. The difference is almost nonexistent which she can make up with GOE.

  13. #58
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,942
    Some skaters would rather not play it safe as opposed to playing it smart, and evidently she's one of them. It's like her SP where she could score well on a 3Z-2L combo, but opts to try the much less reliable 3Z-3L.

  14. #59
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,942
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Hanyu loses what about 5 points for a fallen 4S
    while Sotnikova loses a huge amount from her terrible flip jumping pass combos,
    Hanyu loses about 10 points for errors like a singled 4S, like at TEB (arguably his worst 4S attempt ever). Compare that to Sotnikova's combined flip errors at Cup of China (arguably her worst flips attempts ever).

    Hanyu's 4S attempt at TEB:
    Base value of a 4S = 10.5 points
    Base value of a 1S = 0.4 points -- 10.1 points less
    After GOE deduction of 0.23 = 0.17 points
    So, Hanyu earned 1.6% of the original base value of the 4S (earned 10.33 less).

    Sotnikova's flip attempts at CoC:
    Base value of 3F and 3F with bonus = 11.13 points
    Base value of 2F<< (fall) and 3F with bonus (fall) = 6.33 points, 4.33 points with fall deduction -- 6.8 points less
    After total GOE deduction of 2.40 = 1.93 points
    So, Sotnikova earned 17.3% of the original base value of two 3F's (earned 9.2 points less).

    Clearly, Hanyu's worst error ever on his 4S is much more costly than Sotnikova's worst errors ever on her triple flip attempts.

    Let's not also forget that along with singling the 4S at TEB, Hanyu singled his 3A in the LP, and singled 3Z in his SP at Skate Canada. If it was any skater other than Hanyu, you would have immediately labelled them a headcase.

  15. #60
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    3,989
    I wish she would get proper credit for her 3Lz+3Lo. At both Japan Open and CoC I don't feel it deserved the < call, and at TEB I would have just given it a < rather than <<.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •