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Thread: Is Wagner's 3-3 combo paying off

  1. #16
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
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    She needs it if she wants to considered as one of the top skaters in the world, and I like how she's attacking it. But it feels like it's always going to be iffy. I think she's actually overscored now. Her scores have been pretty good considering the little jump mistakes and mediocre spins, choreography and skating skills. Kind of irrelevent but thoughts about her new FS dress? I like the old one better. The new one is kind of generic.

  2. #17
    Rinkside
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    I think it definitely pays off. Of course there is the question of the underrotation - but this is no worse than with some of Mao's jumps. Let's say both with Ashley and Mao, judges are very tolerant Still I think that Ashley's strength is the interpretation of her programmes - something which the other American ladies are totally missing (minus Czisny, but well, she is no contender anyway anymore).

  3. #18
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Wagner hasn't been solidly consistent this season compared to last season,

    and she runs out of steam and get worn out by the time GPF rolls,
    her two footed or underrotated 3-3 wouldn't have made much of a difference
    right now she is receiving reputation points is what it is

  4. #19
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Wagner hasn't been solidly consistent this season compared to last season,

    and she runs out of steam and get worn out by the time GPF rolls,
    her two footed or underrotated 3-3 wouldn't have made much of a difference
    right now she is receiving reputation points is what it is
    Really? You make it seem like she's making completely obvious and major mistakes. This is the beginning of the Olympic season and I would hope that a skater would not be shelling out completely perfect programs this early in the season.

  5. #20
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    I question coaching that lets an elite skater wait this late in the game to add a 3/3 . I doubt that would have been the case with Shirley or Priscilla. It disturbs me that her problem with ur's has reappeared. I would suggest racking up points in another way unless she can hit this combo (without a ur) a very high percentage of the time.

    She got negative goe's in both the short and long with the combo and in the lp she got a total of 3 negative goe's and and an edge call. Not promising as far as an Olympic medal goes.

  6. #21
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    She's gotten 3/4 calls this season for clean, that's pretty solid and considered a high percentage (more than 50%). It's still early - Nationals are 2 months away, Olys are 2 1/2 months away. She's right there, just needs to clean up a few things in the program to be in the 130-5 LP range and 69-72 SP range.

  7. #22
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I'm not sure she has a choice. Wagner doesn't strike me as the type of skater going to the Olympics for the experience. She clearly wants a medal, Bronze realistically, and she really needs a 3-3 to be in a strong position. If Kostner or Lipnitskaia skated cleanly (or even Gracie Gold, but that seems less likely), Wagner would not have a shot without a 3-3. Obviously if we posit that Wagner skates the best she ever has without a 3-3 and her main competitors falter, than of course it's better without the 3-3, but that's a terrible strategy to have going into the Olympics. It's also important to consider that a solid 3-3 would give her some buffer room in the rest of her program for smaller mistakes.

    All that said, if she can't get the 3-3 down, then she should drop it. It's much better for her to skate a clean performance and hope her rivals falter at Oly, then to come in uncertain about your performance and screw up. But it seems way too early for me to be thinking that way. That's something she should decide after the GP final or Nationals if she still can't get it right. I do hope she get it right at the Olympics, I always want ever skater to skate the best they ever have there.

  8. #23
    Tripping on the Podium penguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    I question coaching that lets an elite skater wait this late in the game to add a 3/3 . I doubt that would have been the case with Shirley or Priscilla.
    I don't think this is a case of a coach telling Ashley in the Olympic season to add a 3-3. Ashley has clearly been working on it for several seasons, and wanted to bring it out last season. I can see how it might have taken her over a year to get it competition-worthy. I like that she's committed to the flip-toe combo, instead of settling for a toe-toe combo, and that's the attitude that makes me root for her. And I'd rather she stick to the 3-3 even with the occasional UR, instead of than backing off and dropping it to be safe.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    I question coaching that lets an elite skater wait this late in the game to add a 3/3 . I doubt that would have been the case with Shirley or Priscilla. It disturbs me that her problem with ur's has reappeared. I would suggest racking up points in another way unless she can hit this combo (without a ur) a very high percentage of the time.

    How has that problem with ur "reappeared"? She got that 3flip-3toe combo ratified as fully rotated several times already. Her other jumps were never downgraded (maybe with one or two exceptions).


    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    She got negative goe's in both the short and long with the combo and in the lp she got a total of 3 negative goe's and and an edge call. Not promising as far as an Olympic medal goes.

    Yeah, shame on her for not being totally clean already everytime she skated considering how relatively early we are still in the season.
    The edge call for her lutz is, just like for many other skaters who have an edge problem on lutz or flip, obviously not doing to disappear suddenly in an Olympic season.

  10. #25
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    Hopefully this year will the reverse of last year for Wagner. Last year she was skating perfectly around now, but had already peaked. She isn't skating perfectly now, so hopefully has more room to grow and will peak later on, unlike last year, and unlike last year armed with the almight 3-3 combo.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by David21 View Post
    How has that problem with ur "reappeared"? She got that 3flip-3toe combo ratified as fully rotated several times already. Her other jumps were never downgraded (maybe with one or two exceptions).
    She has competed 3 times this season and if you will check the protocols, you will see she has had a total of 5 ur's.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    She has competed 3 times this season and if you will check the protocols, you will see she has had a total of 5 ur's.

    That means she has had 0.8 ur's per skated program. This is not perfect, but not a bad ratio, either.

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