This is how I've always felt about Sasha. If we classify her as a headcase, she's probably the headcase with the best record in the history of American skating. People always pointed out, however, that she was great from the ankles up. She didn't have the best edging and stroking (especially compared to Michelle), and that undermined her jumps as well as her general skating. In most other aspects, she was superb, and her record (and her CoP scores when that system came in) reflected that. She remains one of my favorite skaters. I feel no pangs of regret when I contemplate her career, except maybe that she didn't feel she wanted to continue past 2006.
Poised to break through--but didn't
- Thread starter Poodlepal
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This is how I've always felt about Sasha. If we classify her as a headcase, she's probably the headcase with the best record in the history of American skating. People always pointed out, however, that she was great from the ankles up. She didn't have the best edging and stroking (especially compared to Michelle), and that undermined her jumps as well as her general skating. In most other aspects, she was superb, and her record (and her CoP scores when that system came in) reflected that. She remains one of my favorite skaters. I feel no pangs of regret when I contemplate her career, except maybe that she didn't feel she wanted to continue past 2006.
It's fascinating to see the threshold for how people would define "not breaking through". For some it seems quite extraordinarily high and also required someone to leave the sport's eligible ranks while at the very top (only).
Realistically, there are so many varied definitions of this but my own thoughts tend to agree more with those who were either extremely promising early in their careers, then had it cut short (for one reason or another e.g., Stelato with her hip injury) or someone who was there for many many years as a 'road warrior' type who may have been 'waiting their turn' but were inevitably passed, sometimes repeatedly (Amber Corwin).
Skaters like Jill Trenary (multiple US championships, World Champ, Olympian) … I would say did just fine. Yes, she attempted a comeback the year of the 1992 Olympics and issues with injuries (coupled with the elimination of a relative competitive strength for her, compulsories) interfered with her ability to make a full comeback - but I would not consider her to be someone who 'never broke through'
Realistically, there are so many varied definitions of this but my own thoughts tend to agree more with those who were either extremely promising early in their careers, then had it cut short (for one reason or another e.g., Stelato with her hip injury) or someone who was there for many many years as a 'road warrior' type who may have been 'waiting their turn' but were inevitably passed, sometimes repeatedly (Amber Corwin).
Skaters like Jill Trenary (multiple US championships, World Champ, Olympian) … I would say did just fine. Yes, she attempted a comeback the year of the 1992 Olympics and issues with injuries (coupled with the elimination of a relative competitive strength for her, compulsories) interfered with her ability to make a full comeback - but I would not consider her to be someone who 'never broke through'
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- Jan 26, 2008
No, Yukina Ota, she won JWC and then 4 Continents but I think injuries cost her a promising brilliant career.
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- Nov 24, 2006
Yeah, especially when Sasha bombed big time. But there was no way the team that year was not going to include her, Kwan, and the OGM.
I was a huge HUGE fan of APM. Loved her over the top costumes!
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- Nov 24, 2006
Ladies: Tiffany Chin, all the baby ballerinas except Sasha, Czisny
Genlemen: Abbott, possibly Scott Davis, Sandhu, Bowman
Genlemen: Abbott, possibly Scott Davis, Sandhu, Bowman
I included Kimmie because she was "supposed to be" America's main lady for 2010. She wasn't. She broke through, perhaps, but never fulfilled her potential for whatever reason. The same thing with Mirai. In March of 2010, most of us were saying, "Oh I can't wait for the next Olympics, Mirai will be in serious medal contention." Umm--no. Didn't happen. I think the reason the US is now having its second Olympics with practically zero chance of a medalist is because of the downfalls of the "chosen ones." Again, it's not really fair, because of injuries, growth spurts, etc. Perhaps they had too many expectations on them. But other countries send the same skaters for more than one Olympics, but the American girls can't seem to do it for some reason.
Sasha never skated to her potential, but she hung around between Olympics and got a silver medal. She wasn't really the favorite, Irina was, so she fulfilled her expectation more or less.
Another person I was thinking of is Brandon Mroz. Remember him? He was a quad king who sort of fell apart (injured, I think). He beat Johnny Weir one year then vanished from contention.
Johnny and Michael Weiss were two male skaters who were to be Todd Eldredge's successor, but were never in contention for more than a bronze here and there (in the full competitions, anyway). Jeremy Abbott actually broke through more than them, in a way. He and Alissa are at least GPF champions, as is Emmanuel Sandhu.
Sasha never skated to her potential, but she hung around between Olympics and got a silver medal. She wasn't really the favorite, Irina was, so she fulfilled her expectation more or less.
Another person I was thinking of is Brandon Mroz. Remember him? He was a quad king who sort of fell apart (injured, I think). He beat Johnny Weir one year then vanished from contention.
Johnny and Michael Weiss were two male skaters who were to be Todd Eldredge's successor, but were never in contention for more than a bronze here and there (in the full competitions, anyway). Jeremy Abbott actually broke through more than them, in a way. He and Alissa are at least GPF champions, as is Emmanuel Sandhu.
I included Kimmie because she was "supposed to be" America's main lady for 2010. She wasn't. She broke through, perhaps, but never fulfilled her potential for whatever reason. The same thing with Mirai. In March of 2010, most of us were saying, "Oh I can't wait for the next Olympics, Mirai will be in serious medal contention." Umm--no. Didn't happen. I think the reason the US is now having its second Olympics with practically zero chance of a medalist is because of the downfalls of the "chosen ones." Again, it's not really fair, because of injuries, growth spurts, etc. Perhaps they had too many expectations on them. But other countries send the same skaters for more than one Olympics, but the American girls can't seem to do it for some reason.
Sasha never skated to her potential, but she hung around between Olympics and got a silver medal. She wasn't really the favorite, Irina was, so she fulfilled her expectation more or less.
Another person I was thinking of is Brandon Mroz. Remember him? He was a quad king who sort of fell apart (injured, I think). He beat Johnny Weir one year then vanished from contention.
Johnny and Michael Weiss were two male skaters who were to be Todd Eldredge's successor, but were never in contention for more than a bronze here and there (in the full competitions, anyway). Jeremy Abbott actually broke through more than them, in a way. He and Alissa are at least GPF champions, as is Emmanuel Sandhu.
Most of those countries that send the same skater for more then one Olympics don't have the depth of the US so they have to send the same skater. Such as Italy with Kostner. With all her struggles if she had been skating for the US she would have been dumped by 2010 but in Italy there was no competition to challenge her no matter how bad she got.
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- Jul 26, 2003
How about Matt Savoie? He was similar to Jeremy - every artistic, on the podium at US Nationals, but never medalled at World's (That I can recall). LIke Paul Wylie, he was going to college full time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Savoie
Scott Davis lost his jumps to some ear issues that caused him to suffer from vertigo.
I agree with others that said that Sasha C and Nicole B didn't fulfill their potential for various reasons. While they both had success, it wasn't the great success that many had predicted. You can also include Christopher Bowman as another who had the potential for greatness and didn't get to that peak.
Scott Davis lost his jumps to some ear issues that caused him to suffer from vertigo.
I agree with others that said that Sasha C and Nicole B didn't fulfill their potential for various reasons. While they both had success, it wasn't the great success that many had predicted. You can also include Christopher Bowman as another who had the potential for greatness and didn't get to that peak.
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- Jun 27, 2003
Matt was his own worst enemy for so long, and then the judges screwed him over at the Olys in 2006. :disapp:
APM could have had an amazing career, IMO. she had everything, but obviously was a major headcase.
Jenny Kirk had a wonderful personality on the ice and I loved watching her, but she never quite made it big.
Liza is the current headcase of the sport, plus I think she needs a coaching change. her costumes are one of the worst out there, and her music choices are quite weird (her SP this year is horrible, and her LP is poorly choreographed)
Polina Shelepen and Polina K. were such promising juniors about 2 years ago, but totally disappeared from the scene.
Mikkeline Kierkegaard of Denmark was a jewel in 2000/2001, but it never happened for her as well.
Jenny Kirk had a wonderful personality on the ice and I loved watching her, but she never quite made it big.
Liza is the current headcase of the sport, plus I think she needs a coaching change. her costumes are one of the worst out there, and her music choices are quite weird (her SP this year is horrible, and her LP is poorly choreographed)
Polina Shelepen and Polina K. were such promising juniors about 2 years ago, but totally disappeared from the scene.
Mikkeline Kierkegaard of Denmark was a jewel in 2000/2001, but it never happened for her as well.
Well, Japan has great depth and it's the second (and should be the third) time around for Mao Asada. Russia had great skaters in the early 00's/late 90's, yet Irina was always there. YuNa is expected to go to her second--there's not much depth in Korea, maybe, but here's someone with longevity. Male skaters usually go to two Olympics (and three or four if you're Evgeni Plushenko), and so do pairs and ice dancers (more understandably in that case). So, yeah, I'd say most of the people expected to medal are not at their first Olympics.
The US women have had to start over with fresh teams the last two Olympics (in 2010 and this one, unless Rachael and Mirai perform some miracle). It's never the skater's "time." Then, when it should be her "time," she's gone, replaced by another person who's "time" hasn't come yet. In the past when the "lesser" skater from the Olympics didn't work out for some reason (like Tiffany Chin or Jill Trenary) someone appeared who was just as good or better (like Debi or Kristi). I don't see it happening now.
Many talented skaters who abruptly quit before really giving themselves time to breakthrough: Katy Taylor (a "Skating" magazine article reported that one morning before practice, she told her mother she just didn't want to do it anymore; quit that day); Jenny Kirk and Tim Goebel: I remember they both stopped after several unsuccessful performances; Eliot Halverson: US Junior champ whose career succumbed to a back injury; Armin Mahbanoozadeh: said he felt like he was wasting his parents' money after his less than successful season and decided to retire to attend university full time; Shotaro Omori: another talented junior who retired for full time study at university.
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- Jun 27, 2003
Tim quit due to nagging injuries more so than a bad competition. Jenny had an eating disorder and other mental issues that needed to be taken care of.
Both went on to have successful college careers and are doing well in their own rights outside of skating.
Both went on to have successful college careers and are doing well in their own rights outside of skating.
Huh?! Last I heard he was going to compete at sectionals. I knew he was injured, but I felt he could have healed up for sectionals/nationals.
I though he had a great break through last year winning silver at nationals and being part of the US sweep at junior worlds with Josh and Jason.
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- Sep 19, 2006
I can think of several!
SANDHU!! So frustrating. He'd be poised on the verge of greatness and would have a meltdown. He was pegged to be the next one after Stojko but it never happened. His artistic temperament was his undoing, instead of staying calm if he made a mistake he'd often just give up. He was a perfectionist, and he'd rather pop a jump into a single than try it and fall, and popping a jump is a lethal error in any system. He never did get over not being chosen for the Olympic team in 1998. Yes, it sucked (Canada had three berths, and thanks to the COA's red tape, we wasted a spot), but guess what? Life goes on. He was injured in 2002 so couldn't compete in SLC. When he finally did go to the Olympics, in 2006, he imploded and finished 13th behind teammate Shawn Sawyer. I think he needed some tough love. As Paul Martini said during Sandhu's performacne in 2006, there comes a time where you need to take responsibility for yourself. I think Sandhu needed a coach to tell him that and to drill into him to STOP POPPING JUMPS. So often Sandhu looked like he was going to do it, but he never did. Such a shame, he could have been a legend. The Russians feared him above all else.
Cynthia Phaneuf is another one, she looked like she'd do great things but the puberty monster and injuries derailed her after 2005, and she was never able to gain back that conisistency and confidence that she had early in her career. She did succesfully reclaim her spot on the world team in 2009 and 2010. She skated respectably at the Olympics and finished 12th, then had the performance of her life at Worlds a month later and finished fifth. She fell to thirteenth at Worlds the next year and did not make the World team in 2012. She retired last year.
Josee Chouinard broke my heart. I'd literally cry for her when she fell apart, she was so warm and genuine and when she fell apart, you could see it all over her face. If she was ever able to gain consistency she'd be medallist for sure.
There also several Japanese and American Skaters who simply were overshadowed in a deep field.
SANDHU!! So frustrating. He'd be poised on the verge of greatness and would have a meltdown. He was pegged to be the next one after Stojko but it never happened. His artistic temperament was his undoing, instead of staying calm if he made a mistake he'd often just give up. He was a perfectionist, and he'd rather pop a jump into a single than try it and fall, and popping a jump is a lethal error in any system. He never did get over not being chosen for the Olympic team in 1998. Yes, it sucked (Canada had three berths, and thanks to the COA's red tape, we wasted a spot), but guess what? Life goes on. He was injured in 2002 so couldn't compete in SLC. When he finally did go to the Olympics, in 2006, he imploded and finished 13th behind teammate Shawn Sawyer. I think he needed some tough love. As Paul Martini said during Sandhu's performacne in 2006, there comes a time where you need to take responsibility for yourself. I think Sandhu needed a coach to tell him that and to drill into him to STOP POPPING JUMPS. So often Sandhu looked like he was going to do it, but he never did. Such a shame, he could have been a legend. The Russians feared him above all else.
Cynthia Phaneuf is another one, she looked like she'd do great things but the puberty monster and injuries derailed her after 2005, and she was never able to gain back that conisistency and confidence that she had early in her career. She did succesfully reclaim her spot on the world team in 2009 and 2010. She skated respectably at the Olympics and finished 12th, then had the performance of her life at Worlds a month later and finished fifth. She fell to thirteenth at Worlds the next year and did not make the World team in 2012. She retired last year.
Josee Chouinard broke my heart. I'd literally cry for her when she fell apart, she was so warm and genuine and when she fell apart, you could see it all over her face. If she was ever able to gain consistency she'd be medallist for sure.
There also several Japanese and American Skaters who simply were overshadowed in a deep field.
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- Jul 26, 2003
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Coppertop 1
Welcome to Golden Skate!!
Welcome to Golden Skate!!
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- Sep 19, 2006
Thanks! Is there an introductory board to post on in here?
With regards Sasha, I wouldn't put her in here either, no she never won gold, but she was successful. Olympic silver and two World Silver Medals and a bronze is pretty good. Kimmie I thihk is border line she had her big performance and it went downhill (maybe there's a seperate discussion for one hit wonders in skating?). Mirai and Caroline's careers aren't over but Caroline is looking like she's heading to meet this list. Mirai remains to be seen. Other skaters have gone through a slump and picked it up. Arakawa was off the world team for four years before being back on it in 2003 and emerging as a force.
With regards Sasha, I wouldn't put her in here either, no she never won gold, but she was successful. Olympic silver and two World Silver Medals and a bronze is pretty good. Kimmie I thihk is border line she had her big performance and it went downhill (maybe there's a seperate discussion for one hit wonders in skating?). Mirai and Caroline's careers aren't over but Caroline is looking like she's heading to meet this list. Mirai remains to be seen. Other skaters have gone through a slump and picked it up. Arakawa was off the world team for four years before being back on it in 2003 and emerging as a force.
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