Jason Brown's Future Prospects 2.0

I loved that Mao88 brought back an old thread (about Adelina) for perspective and further discussion.

I thought it would be fun to bring back another Mao88 thread from March 2012: Jason Brown's Future Prospects

The discussion was quite a lively debate (perhaps arguably a bit heated at times ) and of course a lot of questioning whether Jason would ever get that 3A. The thread is an entertaining read on how we all saw Jason back then.

ANd now it's fun to look back because 18 months later, we can now say that Jason DOES have the 3A and he went from being a question mark as far as his senior prospects to getting his first GP medal in Paris this past weekend!

All I can say, as a fan, is WHEW!

Also this is worth watching: A visit with figure skating Jason Brown , Phil Hersh's interview from Dec. 2011 about his struggle with the 3A. Glad to see all these efforts are coming fruition.

And here's a post I wrote on that thread:

Here's something I don't think people are taking into account: I think Jason Brown and his team likes perfect programs with no -GOE (or rather, with tons of +GOE). I think that is the gold standard for him and his team.

He did attempt the 3A in a summer comp and while far from perfect (it was two-footed and UR), it's indicative that it's not that he can't do the jump AT ALL. It's that he can't do the jump perfectly.

I'm sure his team knows about Brown's reputation as a all-around packaged skater, so the last thing they want to do is to have that marred by bad 3A attempts. Because he has great choreo, good jump technique on his other jumps and expression, he can get away with this for now. A skater like Kevin Reynolds, for example, doesn't have anything like that, so he has to relay on his jumps — even if they're not executed very well (his quads are pretty cool; but he's had his share of bad 3As).

That said -- yes Brown absolutely needs the 3A (or he can go the Lambiel route and focus on a quad) and his team is aware of that. But I believe there is a long-tail strategy in Brown's development. For those who don't know what that is — in business it means selling "more" unique or hard-to-find items rather than a large volume of a small number of popular items.

In Brown's case, it means not selling — for now — the everyone-must-have 3A and instead selling qualities not seen by those other skaters — great chreo, clean +GOE programs, consistent 7-triple jump programs, expression to the music.

So now we know Brown can do perfect programs. The next step, logistically is perfect programs with 3As.

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And he did that perfect FS with two 3As at junior worlds earlier this year, winning the FS, though he was second overall. And he has done perfect SPs (3/3 internationally this season) with a 3A, but he still needs to do a perfect FS with two 3As (He missed both his 3As at Skate America and popped one of them in his FS at TEB).

But funny how my post still applies, though now we're talking about the quad!

Anyway, let's start round two: What is Jason Brown's future prospects now that he actually has competed in two Grand Prix events?

He might well make it to 4cc's, if not Olympics or Worlds this year!

IMO, he is one of them whom I would look out for post Sochi. I think his chances of winning World medals is good provided he has a consistent 3A and chances of dominating if he has a consistent quad. Good luck to this kid.

Thank you for reviving this thread!

One correction to your post: He has done perfect programs on the senior level with 3As, but only short programs. However, that is a big start. Moreover, a lot of senior men pop their second triple axel- Adam Rippon has the same issue, as has Chan, Takahashi, Abbott, Hanyu, and others.

I think that if Jason develops a consistent quad toe and becomes more consistent with the triple axel, he will be World Champion one day for sure. He's got everything else in spades. And the great news is that the international judges are validating his approach and rewarding him.

I hope more than anything that Jason can develop a consistent second triple axel and a consistent quad toe WITHOUT having to leave his beloved and extraordinary coach. Their bond is so unique and touching. and I think she has been one of the major reasons he's developed so beautifully not only as a skater but also as a human being.

Final thought: Jason need never win a World Medal for me to adore and appreciate him beyond the capacity of words to describe. All I want for him is a venue to let his talent soar and his spirit shine. He is an inspiration in so many ways. I would not want him to lose his joyfulness, his zest, his enthusiasm as a result of relentlessly focusing on the quad or getting down because he does not master it. His gifts transcend his mastery of elements.

wordsworthgirl said:

Thank you for reviving this thread!

One correction to your post: He has done perfect programs on the senior level with 3As, but only short programs. However, that is a big start. Moreover, a lot of senior men pop their second triple axel- Adam Rippon has the same issue, as has Chan, Takahashi, Abbott, Hanyu, and others.

I think that if Jason develops a consistent quad toe and becomes more consistent with the triple axel, he will be World Champion one day for sure. He's got everything else in spades. And the great news is that the international judges are validating his approach and rewarding him.

I hope more than anything that Jason can develop a consistent second triple axel and a consistent quad toe WITHOUT having to leave his beloved and extraordinary coach. Their bond is so unique and touching. and I think she has been one of the major reasons he's developed so beautifully not only as a skater but also as a human being.

Final thought: Jason need never win a World Medal for me to adore and appreciate him beyond the capacity of words to describe. All I want for him is a venue to let his talent soar and his spirit shine. He is an inspiration in so many ways. I would not want him to lose his joyfulness, his zest, his enthusiasm as a result of relentlessly focusing on the quad or getting down because he does not master it. His gifts transcend his mastery of elements.

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To clarify, I guess I meant perfect programs with multiple 3As in the FS, but yes, he's been 3/3 on SPs already! Yay. Will change my thread to make it clear.

Anyway, I totally agree regarding your final point. Doris made a similar point in the the original thread:

Brown is unique, and I would pay to watch him, even if he never gets a 3A, because he does unique, interesting stuff to music, and is like nobody else, except maybe a little bit like his choreographer, Rohene Ward, whom I also would pay to watch skate any time, even though he never finished above last place or so at US Nationals. And there are people who feel this way about Shawn Sawyer and Jonathan Casser. Sometimes you just connect with a performer, whether they are going to win or not.

... I am interested in whether Brown gets his big jumps, because, selfishly, I hope to see him skate longer on the the competitive scene , something that is more unlikely to happen if he does not get his big jumps.

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Well Doris, your wish may be coming true.

spikydurian said:

IMO, he is one of them whom I would look out for post Sochi. I think his chances of winning World medals is good provided he has a consistent 3A and chances of dominating if he has a consistent quad. Good luck to this kid.

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Even if he reamins shaky with the 3A, I'm curious to see if he'll develop into toe jumper with a solid 4T technique and strong PCS in the vein of Chan and Lambiel. It's not a bad strategy if he develops a reliable quad toe but the triple axel continues to be an issue.

I love Jason. I won't let myself be bothered by his jumps - he got his 3A in due time, and even with a popped one in the free he's got the second-highest free skate of an American man on the grand prix so far, and that was behind a skate with three rotated (messy, yes, but rotated) quads.

I would, however, like to see him work on speed. He's not slow by any means, but he needs that little extra push. I love that his programs are filled to the brim with transitions, but I wonder if it would be prudent for him to sacrifice a MITF here or there so he can speed up. Or even just hold a spiral longer, give him an extra three seconds to breathe.

I also want him to have a darker green in his FS costume, maybe not so much fussy detailing, but I'll be fine if that doesn't change.

Srin Odessa said:

Even if he reamins shaky with the 3A, I'm curious to see if he'll develop into toe jumper with a solid 4T technique and strong PCS in the vein of Chan and Lambiel. It's not a bad strategy if he develops a reliable quad toe but the triple axel continues to be an issue.

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Actually I think the 3A is pretty solid. He hasn't missed it in the short program once in his three international competitions. I believe his mistakes with the 3A were more an issue of nerves in at Skate America and it looked like at TEB he just had so much energy that he popped the jump, silly mistake.

That said, I think he'll get the quad quicker because his toe jumps, in general, have been quite sound.

ghislaine said:

I would, however, like to see him work on speed. He's not slow by any means, but he needs that little extra push. I love that his programs are filled to the brim with transitions, but I wonder if it would be prudent for him to sacrifice a MITF here or there so he can speed up.

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I agree. I think he could use some improvement in the ice coverage arena as well. When you see him and Patrick back-to-back at this competition, that is quite apparent.

On the other hand, he got 80+ in PCS at TEB, which is quite high for a skater just coming out of juniors, so perhaps he's doing OK. When he got 79 something at Skate America, I was thinking that might have been a home boost PCS, so it's a pleasant surprise to see him get even higher PCS in France!

His strategy of skating 'clean' with planned elements that he knows he can deliver on with decent security, is paying off, as the audience reaction, plus overall 'reaction' from the judges has tended to be more positive with a clean enthusiastic skate

He won the bronze medal but his free skate involving one sucessful 3a and no quad was a big problem and only because of extreme bombing of others did he medal. Sending this personally popular skater with bare triple axel ability and no quad ability seems crazy but his personal popularity may send him to Sochi and that seems a little weird!

beautifully said -
you are worthy of your "name" !! isnt there somebody out there who could fill us in on how close he is to the quad toe - I read somewhere that he is landing it a lot in practice - I sure hope thats true . I also would love to know what he said to the guy presenting PC with his gold medal at the Medal Ceremony at TEB???? The presenter was saying something to PC ( which I would guess would be " great program great skate " and Jason leant over and said something - I had a feeling watching it that it was something really bfeautiful about PC's prgram but I am not sure . If I am right ,it again speaks to Jasons spirit which is truly unique and quite wonderful . Any lip readers out there ?!!

One correction to your post: He has done perfect programs on the senior level with 3As, but only short programs. However, that is a big start. Moreover, a lot of senior men pop their second triple axel- Adam Rippon has the same issue, as has Chan, Takahashi, Abbott, Hanyu, and others.

I think that if Jason develops a consistent quad toe and becomes more consistent with the triple axel, he will be World Champion one day for sure. He's got everything else in spades. And the great news is that the international judges are validating his approach and rewarding him.

I hope more than anything that Jason can develop a consistent second triple axel and a consistent quad toe WITHOUT having to leave his beloved and extraordinary coach. Their bond is so unique and touching. and I think she has been one of the major reasons he's developed so beautifully not only as a skater but also as a human being.

Final thought: Jason need never win a World Medal for me to adore and appreciate him beyond the capacity of words to describe. All I want for him is a venue to let his talent soar and his spirit shine. He is an inspiration in so many ways. I would not want him to lose his joyfulness, his zest, his enthusiasm as a result of relentlessly focusing on the quad or getting down because he does not master it. His gifts transcend his mastery of elements.[/QUOTE]

I think once he gets the quad he'll be a major contender. He's kind of like Patrick was in 2010 without the quad (maybe not quite as good as PC was then, but in a similar situation). Once Patrick got the quad, he was flying leaps and bounds above everyone, while he could easily fall down to the upper-middle of the pack in an international competition without it (ie. 5th at Vancouver Olympics).

gottadance said:

beautifully said -
you are worthy of your "name" !! isnt there somebody out there who could fill us in on how close he is to the quad toe - I read somewhere that he is landing it a lot in practice - I sure hope thats true . I also would love to know what he said to the guy presenting PC with his gold medal at the Medal Ceremony at TEB???? The presenter was saying something to PC ( which I would guess would be " great program great skate " and Jason leant over and said something - I had a feeling watching it that it was something really bfeautiful about PC's prgram but I am not sure . If I am right ,it again speaks to Jasons spirit which is truly unique and quite wonderful . Any lip readers out there ?!!

One correction to your post: He has done perfect programs on the senior level with 3As, but only short programs. However, that is a big start. Moreover, a lot of senior men pop their second triple axel- Adam Rippon has the same issue, as has Chan, Takahashi, Abbott, Hanyu, and others.

I think that if Jason develops a consistent quad toe and becomes more consistent with the triple axel, he will be World Champion one day for sure. He's got everything else in spades. And the great news is that the international judges are validating his approach and rewarding him.

I hope more than anything that Jason can develop a consistent second triple axel and a consistent quad toe WITHOUT having to leave his beloved and extraordinary coach. Their bond is so unique and touching. and I think she has been one of the major reasons he's developed so beautifully not only as a skater but also as a human being.

Final thought: Jason need never win a World Medal for me to adore and appreciate him beyond the capacity of words to describe. All I want for him is a venue to let his talent soar and his spirit shine. He is an inspiration in so many ways. I would not want him to lose his joyfulness, his zest, his enthusiasm as a result of relentlessly focusing on the quad or getting down because he does not master it. His gifts transcend his mastery of elements.

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[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for your kind words about my writing! I am a writer in real life.

and I TOTALLY share your desire to know 1) the current status of his quad toe and 2) what he said in the medals ceremony- I was wondering the same thing! I thought Patrick was very gracious and kind to Jason as well- made me like Patrick more too!

blue_idealist said:

I think once he gets the quad he'll be a major contender. He's kind of like Patrick was in 2010 without the quad (maybe not quite as good as PC was then, but in a similar situation). Once Patrick got the quad, he was flying leaps and bounds above everyone, while he could easily fall down to the upper-middle of the pack in an international competition without it (ie. 5th at Vancouver Olympics).

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Ooh I so hope you're right!

BlueIdealist, I can't see the skater who is your avatar- is it Patrick?

Mrs. P said:

Actually I think the 3A is pretty solid. He hasn't missed it in the short program once in his three international competitions. I believe his mistakes with the 3A were more an issue of nerves in at Skate America and it looked like at TEB he just had so much energy that he popped the jump, silly mistake.

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I agree his 3A errors this season seem to be more mental. I saw him land an effortless 3a-3t in the TEB warmup, right before he singled it in the program. As I said during Skate America, there may be some nerves/expectations/excitement as he finds himself in a position to medal at these big competitions after the short, and perhaps in his mind he's placing a lot of importance on this jump. He still comes back and skates well otherwise, so I don't think it's much of a concern.

I'd be excited to see him start doing quads. Like wordsworthgirl, I'd appreciate his skating no matter what, but seeing him achieve great success and have a long competitive career would be even better.

I think that if Jason develops a consistent quad toe and becomes more consistent with the triple axel, he will be World Champion one day for sure. He's got everything else in spades. And the great news is that the international judges are validating his approach and rewarding him.

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The one thing that Jason has that not very many others have is an exceptional performance factor. He's having fun out there and entertaining the crowd at the same time. I think all he needs is a consistent quad toe and it's off to the races! He'll have the technical and he'll beat the Japanese on performance. JMO of course. I've liked Jason since the first time I saw him. He has much time to mature but I agree with Wordsworthgirl - he will be World Champion one day. I'm also picking him to win Nationals this year!!! Whether he got help this weekend from other skaters or not - that's pretty much the name of the game! (ask Sarah Hughes, Evan Lysacek, and a host of others)

Jason isn't only artistic but also very entertaining to watch on and off the ice. His interviews are a riot as he is such a joyful and funny guy. Comparing him to PC is misleading. PC has way too many haters and bombs his interviews frequently. PC has deep edges that are even deeper than Tessa Virtue's - that's the extent of his talent. When it comes to sportsmanship and entertainment factor, PC isn't like Jason Brown. There are skaters who are artistic but are very boring to watch when they can't get it together. Remember Petr Barna? Jason inherited Rohene's moves and emulated them in execution.

gottadance said:

beautifully said -
I also would love to know what he said to the guy presenting PC with his gold medal at the Medal Ceremony at TEB???? The presenter was saying something to PC ( which I would guess would be " great program great skate " and Jason leant over and said something - I had a feeling watching it that it was something really bfeautiful about PC's prgram but I am not sure . If I am right ,it again speaks to Jasons spirit which is truly unique and quite wonderful . Any lip readers out there ?!!

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wordsworthgirl said:

and I TOTALLY share your desire to know 1) the current status of his quad toe and 2) what he said in the medals ceremony- I was wondering the same thing! I thought Patrick was very gracious and kind to Jason as well- made me like Patrick more too!

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RE: Medal ceremony talk with Speedy (i.e. ISU president Ottavio Cinquanta):

This is an educated guess. But I think Jason was saying how great Patrick's skate was. And then he made a gesture to indicate tears falling from his face, so I guess he was saying Patrick's skate brought him to tears.

Which goes to show that skaters tend to give respect to other skaters more than us fans. There is a lot of debate over whether Jason is superior to Patrick in artistry, but it's clear that Jason looks up to Patrick. In fact in an interview he had with Ice Network, he gives props to both Patrick AND Daisuke Takahashi:

"I love how smooth Patrick [Chan] is on the ice," Brown said. "And he has perfect posture. I would love to steal that. And Daisuke [Takahashi] -- I would like to take a little of his style."

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RE: Quad

SaraM, who attended the event, mentioned in another thread that when she talked to Kori, she indicated that Jason is practicing the quad, but it was not consistent enough to put in competition.

Actually, I'm not worried about the quad. He's training it - he'll get it. It may not be this season - it may be the next - but I'm sure it's only a matter of time. I remember how worried his fans were about his 3A - and here it is. (Note: I say "his" fans, as I wasn't one myself at the time - I don't watch juniors enough for that.)

TSL posted a video many months ago of Jason's training quad. I'll see if I can find it.

Here we go - quad toe. Video posted on May 17.

Going to post a quote I remember thinking was rather ambitious and is now looking conservative:

Having finished one-two at so many competitions, we asked if the boys had ever imagined finishing in first and second at the senior level at the U.S. championships.

"That would be a dream come true," Brown said. "That's how I always hoped and dreamed it would be. It would be unbelievable. And then we could go to worlds!"

"2014 Worlds, we're going," Farris said. "That's our goal."

"That would be the best," Brown said. "That would be so exciting."

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from here: Farris and Brown, Friendly Rivals (summer 2012)