Wicked Yankee Girl
What I don't like, in US teams, is that Sappenfield's choreo all looks much the same, and most of our top teams go to her, so even if the couples are different, because they change partners all the time, the choreo isn't very interesting to me-trick, trick, trick, crossover, crossover, crossover.
Originally Posted by noskates
I do like Julie Marcotte's choreo, and really loved what she tried to do for Castelli & Shnapir this year (and of course, what she has done for the Canadian teams for years) and S&S's choreo.
BTW, what Denney & Coughlin really need is something more like their Exhibition number, which is great fun, and Caydee and John seem to be having a ball skating it, versus their competitive Tosca & Phantom. If you think D&C are boring, do check out the exhibition. It may not be your cup of tea, but it is far from boring:
In "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" they have connection, fun, and good spirit, so unlike in competition.
My first loves in skating were, without doubt, the Protopopovs dating back to the 1960's, long before I fell in love with ice dance. I don't require North American teams to do well for me to like an event. However, I never liked Rodnina & partners, but there were Tai & Randy and Martini & Underhill. However, post COP there were Shen & Zhao and Pang & Tong. S&S, a bit, but right now, it's pretty much a wasteland.
Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-19-2013 at 04:58 PM.
My take on the lack of popularity of pairs skating is really similar to many.
First, pairs skating with COP is looking rather generic because everyone is trying to maximize point and up the levels plus there are so many required elements. They look alike.
Second, right now there is no pair that really captures the imagination. The perfection of unity of skating, extreme personalities, extremely passionate and romantic. You don't have the passion of Artur Dimitriev or the beauty of G and G or the romance and grace of the Protopovs. It is a bit generic.
Third, North America has a huge say market wise in respect funding/sponsorships and the Americans in particulary have no pairs team that really is well known -in part because they are still developing and in part because the pairs keep breaking up so it is like who with who and at best you might no the name but you can't put a face to the team like Randy and Tai which was like over 30years ago.
Fourth, pairs skating is a different breed. It is not merely jumping or even spinning but you need to be able to do the mechanics of a lift, pairs spin, throws and twists etc which require differnt strengths and timing which is why a good singles skater doesnt' make a good pairs. In the case of Dube and Davison they were both singles skaters but they couldn't even use that to their advantage because each person's best jump was the other person's weakness. Galindo and Yamaguchi might have been the exception but he wasn't as strong as some of the other guys.
Fifth, right now the pairs teams are very good but not really great. Pang and Tong sort of are getting tired, injured and in a way a cheap version of S and Z. V and T are powerful but no connection. Ssqaured are getting a bit tired and rarely skate clean. Not a lot of new faces really and no one is super exciting.
When I go to an event live I actually like pairs the best. The crowd does too as far as I can tell. The problem is pairs does not translate well into video. Dance, in fact is quite boring to watch in the arena. You can't see all the dramatic facial expressions at all like you see in video. Every time I try to watch pairs on video I sort of feel uncomfortable. The falls are harsher. The elements look really hard and dangerous, especially those crazy lifts. Death spiral, while probably not even the hardest element, always scares me to death. Also, the height difference between the partners is really glaring. The girl always looks too scarily thin (Vera Bazarova, a beautiful girl, but I feel bad looking at her, unlike the joy I feel when I see other beautiful Russian lady like Elena Ilinykh or Nikol Gosviani), and the guys are a bit too butch. They never quite match and it shows when you see them in detail on video. In the arena there is just the wow factor. I do get very excited.
Also, this is probably a random coincidence, pairs programs are always tackier and cheesier than other disciplines. Pang/Tong is a good example. I just can't bear their cheesy romanticism. Denney/Coughlin just brings tacky to a new level. Only Coomes/Buckland is worse than them anywhere else and I always feel like they would have done better as pairs skaters. Even Shen/Zhao's programs are not as subtle as "the bests" of other disciplines.
Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal"
Castelli/Shnapir have been together since 2006, FWIW.
Originally Posted by heyang
A separate thought:
Does anyone wonder whether the cause celebre of the Salt Lake City gold left a bad taste in the mouths of casual fans -- either in the U.S. and/or worldwide -- that helped turned them against pairs skating?
I myself thought that the halos placed over the heads of the Canadian pair were unjustified. They made me roll my eyes a lot.
and... World Peace!
don't forget that the lady must show the most amount of drama possible with keeping her mouth WIDE OPEN the ENTIRE TIME.
Originally Posted by dorispulaski
I wouldn't consider this a fact at all... seeing ice dance live is what got me hooked.
Originally Posted by noididnt
I think it is because it is not impressive on television. But live...WOW. TV makes it all look so much smaller and less interesting. I know though for my skater and her friends, pairs isn't something they watch because the field is really small and it's not something they can try. There aren't enough male skaters. It's a very tiny club.
I think ice dance -since it can be tested/competed as a single skater -will continue to grow in popularity.
I agree that pair skating is much more exciting live than on TV.
I didn't care for D/C, but watching them live, I thought they were super fast, explosive. I can't see her face from far away, so they are mighty impressive!
I know it's not comparable, but D/C were two or three times faster than D/W for the entire program. I was gasping for air by the time D/C finished.
If given a chance, you guys should watch pair skating live to appreciate it.
and... World Peace!
I'm not saying Pairs isn't impressive - it is, and I've seen it live (last time was 2008 when John and Caitlyn were just? starting out). I just personally get frustrated with it because just about the time a really good pair gets going something happens and they break up/quit/whatever.
The reason is the lack of talents nowdays.
Why we could expect an acrobat (they undoubtadly need to be acrobat nowdays) to be emotional at the same time?
When it is there together:BINGO.
The last bingo was Shen/Zhao.
All the present pairs are robotic like Totmianina/Marinin was in their time.
Pang/Tong is not robotic, but lost the technical content. When poor Tong completed a technically clean triple jump last time. 2 years ago?
Sui/Han can bring a fresh air IF they learned how to skate in 2 edges.... Or the Chinese young pair who won Silver last year Junior World(name??...)I'm crossing my finger for them.
Because most people only (or largely) care about skaters representing their own country?
Tripping on the Podium
I agree that pairs is so much more impressive in person, even at the lower levels. Pairs is really really hard to do well, but I think that amazement flattens out when you watch on TV. I also wonder if it's a chicken-egg problem, where it's less popular (in North America at least) so it attracts fewer skaters, which keeps the pool of elites extra-small, and in the end you just don't have a lot of high-quality pairs out there to bring the excitement and motivate more people to go into pairs.
That's frustrating to me as well. It's probably not coincidence that in ice dance, Davis/White and Virtue/Moir have both been together since childhood. Pairs like that would be more gratifying to follow and might do better as well--as Babilonia/Gardner did in the 1970s.
Originally Posted by Tonichelle
Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal"
As I previously had posted in another thread, apparently ice dance lately has been attracting more and more American skaters from the pool who are not interested in competing in singles. Ice dance's gain = pairs' loss. American skaters want to grow up to be Davis/White and/or Belbin/Agosto.
Originally Posted by penguin
(To some extent, Virtue/Moir have had a similar effect in Canada, I believe.)
and... World Peace!
Tai and Randy weren't allowed to give up as easily as the pairs are today. They were told to suck it up and work through their differences. Most would consider that abusive in today's society. "we can't tell kids what to do, how AWFUL!"
Originally Posted by Olympia
Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
This goes in cycles. At one time, Dance was the least popular. For a while, the men. Right now, it's the pairs' turn to not be as popular. Then again, the fact that we're not considering synchros, which is a discipline, shows that pairs is only the 2nd least popular.