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Thread: Alissa Czisny Withdraws Sectional Championships

  1. #46
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meem View Post
    She has been IMO *the* most elegant skater (I think her Sabrina LP was the best--evah!!!)
    I felt she deserved to win Nationals in 2007! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZurMskwPwE0

    I'm sad that Czisny overpushed the jumps during the 2011-2012 season. I'm 99% sure it's what caused the career-ending injuries. Trying to do all of those 3Lutz+3Toes that were drastically underrotated ground her hip down. Plus she was going for the Salchow that season, also underrotating it in practice and grinding her hip on those landings, AND she had two Triple Loops in her LP (which of course are not the best for your hips).

    Her coaches should have been trying to increase the quality of the jumps she already had and working on the PCS side of her skating. She really didn't need more jump content.

  2. #47
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    ^ Like Wagner is doing now, though, I think Czisny wanted more. It's a risk she took but unfortunately it didn't pay off.

    She wasn't going to win any major events (i.e.Worlds)without a 3-3 anyway.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe Nero View Post
    Yes, as Mrs. P said. Thank you, Mrs. P.

    Skater Boy, I don't want to debate with you or anyone else on this thread. I think it is quite clear that the post of mine to which you respond expresses my feelings about Czisny. Where you get the notion that I am trying to represent "the imagination of the US" in my post, I have no idea.

    Why am I even responding to you? I will attribute this to a personal flaw in me.
    Sorry, I wasn't trying to debate you or anything. Simply pointing out that it appears there are many Alissa diehard fans but she never really had the same magnitude of appeal as some other American skaters because the lack of big wins and really fading out at the end though we know she tried her best. Winning a regionals with doubles isn't really something a lot of people at the highest levels of skating want to be remembered. She really though was a beautiful skater minus the jump problems. Please know I was not trying to belittle you; just an observation. It is totally understandable Alissa might have some devout followers. One can say that about most skaters though some are more vocal. I am sure Zhang has her huge fans as does Flatt but not as vocal for sure as Alissa and then again probably on these sites. Sadly most of America or the world could care less.

  4. #49
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I felt she deserved to win Nationals in 2007! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZurMskwPwE0

    I'm sad that Czisny overpushed the jumps during the 2011-2012 season. I'm 99% sure it's what caused the career-ending injuries. Trying to do all of those 3Lutz+3Toes that were drastically underrotated ground her hip down. Plus she was going for the Salchow that season, also underrotating it in practice and grinding her hip on those landings, AND she had two Triple Loops in her LP (which of course are not the best for your hips).

    Her coaches should have been trying to increase the quality of the jumps she already had and working on the PCS side of her skating. She really didn't need more jump content.
    She also was unbelievably working on the 3axel at one point. (!?!?!?) That was when she was just as likely to fall on a 2axel as much as a 3lutz. Her 2axel was always going up sideways. I agree she should have just spent her time trying to increase the quality and consistency of the jumps she had. But her foundation just wasn't there. Didn't she also spend a lot of time with Brian Boitano trying to adjust her jumps, to no avail? Then Jason and Yuka tried to redo her technique? Pretty late in the game to do that.

    Does anyone remember why she decided to try to bring 3sal back? I'm out of the loop for years now, is there now a bonus for completing all five triples? I can't imagine why she'd bring that back since it was such a bad jump for her. I do think every skater should demonstrate every take-off.

  5. #50
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    ^ Like Wagner is doing now, though, I think Czisny wanted more. It's a risk she took but unfortunately it didn't pay off.

    She wasn't going to win any major events (i.e.Worlds)without a 3-3 anyway.
    Totally disagree with your second point. Czisny could have won 2012 Worlds without a 3-3, for sure. That championship and 2011 Worlds were both won by skaters who did 2 Triples in the SP and 5 Triples in the LP. 2010 Worlds wasn't any better either, since Mao Asada got two of her 3Axel's downgraded there (at a time when that made them worth only Double Axels). It should have been abundantly clear after 2011 Worlds that working for GOE and PCS is the way to go in Ladies skating. The differential in base value between the jumps isn't nearly as large as in the Men's field. If Czisny wanted extra base value from jumps, she could have been trying to train 3Lutz+2Loop combo and she could have brought the 2Axel+2Axel sequence back into her LP. That right there would have increased her base value by 1.68 between both programs.

  6. #51
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Sorry, I wasn't trying to debate you or anything. Simply pointing out that it appears there are many Alissa diehard fans but she never really had the same magnitude of appeal as some other American skaters because the lack of big wins and really fading out at the end though we know she tried her best. Winning a regionals with doubles isn't really something a lot of people at the highest levels of skating want to be remembered.
    I understood what you meant. I watched her live at her first senior Nationals. She was falling all over the place, but there was something THERE. Or the potential. But it was hard to be a fan because she was almost never clean, and she couldn't for me create a mood or character (?) to her skating. And we aren't talking a stumble we're talking 3 and 4 fall FS's. Bobek was like that, but she was an in your face fun skater, a partygirl who blew her competitions because she wasn't training. With Alissa, she was sort of the anti-Bobek, hard-working, college educated, and you WANT her to succeed. You want nice people and deserving people to finish first, not last. I couldn't be a fan because I'm getting up in age and my cardiovascular system would have been at risk. I never felt hardly anything from Czisny's skating because I was always waiting for the splatfest to commence. Plus she stalked all her moves and looked tentative throughout. I never saw "confident champion" out there. She's got loads of talent, and show skating (whatever there is left of it) is perfect for her. She's got the best spins in the world, a graceful presence when she isn't required to jump, and she seems like an extremely nice and accomplished woman.

  7. #52
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    She will be remembered as a champion.

    Here is the list of ladies who won multiple U.S. championships since 1950:

    Tenley Albright, Carol Heiss, Peggy Fleming, Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne, Rozalyn Sumners, Debi Thomas, Jill Trenary, Michelle Kwan, Alissa Czisny, Ashley Wagner.

    Edited to add: American ladies who have won the Grand Prix Final:

    Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, Sasha Cohen, Alissa Czisny.
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-22-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  8. #53
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    She will be remembered as a champion.

    Here is the list of ladies who won multiple U.S. championships since 1950:

    Tenley Albright, Carol Heiss, Peggy Fleming, Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne, Rozalyn Sumners, Debi Thomas, Jill Trenary, Michelle Kwan, Alissa Czisny, Ashley Wagner.

    Edited to add: American ladies who have won the Grand Prix Final:

    Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, Sasha Cohen, Alissa Czisny.
    Nice memories, well worth mentioning!

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    She will be remembered as a champion.

    Here is the list of ladies who won multiple U.S. championships since 1950:

    Tenley Albright, Carol Heiss, Peggy Fleming, Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne, Rozalyn Sumners, Debi Thomas, Jill Trenary, Michelle Kwan, Alissa Czisny, Ashley Wagner.

    Edited to add: American ladies who have won the Grand Prix Final:

    Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, Sasha Cohen, Alissa Czisny.

    Thanks, Math!
    I find her tremendously appealing, and I've enjoyed other skaters who would never make it onto any international podium. But it's nice to remember that Czisny did indeed earn a certain amount of hardware in her career.

  10. #55
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    Did the skater who was the alternate to qualify from regionals get enough advance notice to get to compete at Sectionals?
    For every skater, there is a unique goal which is worth honoring IMO

  11. #56
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    Alissa was smart to withdraw from Sectionals. Here were the scores of the top four who qualified for Nationals:

    1. 174.80 59.52 115.28 Hannah MILLER
    2. 164.50 57.59 106.91 Ashley CAIN
    3. 157.45 57.43 100.02 Barbie LONG
    4. 154.91 57.59 97.32 Mariah BELL

    Alissa could not have placed top 4 in this competition with doubles.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcd View Post
    Did the skater who was the alternate to qualify from regionals get enough advance notice to get to compete at Sectionals?
    For every skater, there is a unique goal which is worth honoring IMO
    Yes she did, Alexie Mieskoski placed 9th at Midwesterns with a score just higher than her 5th place finish at EGL

  13. #58
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    ^ Thanks for the news, Sarahspins.

  14. #59
    I got your program components right here. Pepe Nero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I felt she deserved to win Nationals in 2007! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZurMskwPwE0

    I'm sad that Czisny overpushed the jumps during the 2011-2012 season. I'm 99% sure it's what caused the career-ending injuries. Trying to do all of those 3Lutz+3Toes that were drastically underrotated ground her hip down. Plus she was going for the Salchow that season, also underrotating it in practice and grinding her hip on those landings, AND she had two Triple Loops in her LP (which of course are not the best for your hips).

    Her coaches should have been trying to increase the quality of the jumps she already had and working on the PCS side of her skating. She really didn't need more jump content.
    Yes, I think this is wholly correct. Czisny with 3z/2t in the SP and 6 triples in the LP (which requires no 3/3 or 2ax/3t or 3sal) would have been perfectly competitive for the podium in the US and the World. (In other words, what she was doing in 2010-2011.) Argh, hindsight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Sadly most of America or the world could care less.
    I think you mean "couldn't care less." I think. I would love it if most of America or the world could care less.

    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    She also was unbelievably working on the 3axel at one point. (!?!?!?)
    Really? Are you ****ing me? I so want to believe that!

    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    Does anyone remember why she decided to try to bring 3sal back? I'm out of the loop for years now, is there now a bonus for completing all five triples?
    I also find it mysterious. The only advantage, if I am not mistaken, is that it is necessary, given the rules of the CoP, to get 7 triples into a Ladies' FS to do all of the non-Axel triples. But why would Czisny ever try to become a TES powerhouse??? I blame her coaches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    She will be remembered as a champion.

    Here is the list of ladies who won multiple U.S. championships since 1950:

    Tenley Albright, Carol Heiss, Peggy Fleming, Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill, Linda Fratianne, Rozalyn Sumners, Debi Thomas, Jill Trenary, Michelle Kwan, Alissa Czisny, Ashley Wagner.

    Edited to add: American ladies who have won the Grand Prix Final:

    Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, Sasha Cohen, Alissa Czisny.
    Yay! Thank you, Mathman.

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Alissa was smart to withdraw from Sectionals. Here were the scores of the top four who qualified for Nationals:

    1. 174.80 59.52 115.28 Hannah MILLER
    2. 164.50 57.59 106.91 Ashley CAIN
    3. 157.45 57.43 100.02 Barbie LONG
    4. 154.91 57.59 97.32 Mariah BELL

    Alissa could not have placed top 4 in this competition with doubles.
    Chuckm, this is such bad reasoning. Not only did Blades of Passion already show that indeed Czisny could have topped these scores with doubles, but it is also the case that Czisny might not have only done doubles had she actually competed.

    Czisny's amateur career is probably over, Chuckm. So should be your criticism of her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe Nero View Post
    Really? Are you ****ing me? I so want to believe that!
    In the TLC documentary, Ice Diaries, Alissa was seen training the triple axel on the harness. This was in late 2001, early 2002.

    Of course, it's been taken off Youtube ... man, YT videos have been disappearing a lot.

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