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Thread: Gracie changing SP music?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    But that wouldn't make sense, would it? Ashley's training with Rafael.

    Personally, I like the program. I think Gracie's still at that stage where she developing her style, and we should flat out just shut her down when she wants to try something new. I get that there are criticisms of the program, but to say that she should only stick to a particular type of music from now on when we've barely seen what she is capable of isn't fair. Her arm movements are lovely in this program versus the other one among other things and I'm willing to give it a chance.

    I agree. Is it me or is she getting criticism from every direction. she's inconsistent, she'll never make it, hate her SP/hate her NEW SP/hate her LP, coaches, etc etc. Good grief! Give her a chance. We all know she's a power skater, but relying solely on jumps won't get you a title, and she's still developing her style. Developing her artistry is never a bad idea. In fact, often adding a softer, more lyrical skater can often bring out the speed and power more. Also, softer music can help relax a skater.

    And this villifying of Frank Carroll and Lori Nichol is really sounding exaggerated.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundtracksOnIce View Post
    Not the LP as much but the SP. In Brennan's book she said Michelle wasn't crazy about Lyra Angelica at first but was encouraged to listen to it in tour & green to like it. For the SP she'd wanted Spanish music but Lori & Frank didn't like it. When she listened to the Rachmaninoff, the exact book quote is "'It's good' she said hesitantly. She was still hoping for something else." But Lori talked her into it.
    And the exact book quote after that is (219):
    "Nichol felt the Rachmaninoff piano music was worth fighting for, so she faxed Michelle a four page letter, listing fifteen reasons why Rachmaninoff was perfect for her ... Kwan read the fax, listen to the music again, and called Nichol to tell her she agreed.

    "Rachmaninoff it was."
    Again, not forced. Tara, on the other hand, turned down all of Sandra Bezic's choices even when Bezic tried to convince her. One was convinced, the other wasn't. I still don't think either of them were forced into skating to a piece of music that they didn't want to.

  3. #123
    Custom Title cinnamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    Someone on another forum pointed out that Gracie seemed to have borrowed the dress from her sister Carly - who wore it, or one just like it in a competition. The user even posted pics. No doubt that Gracie will have a new dress for Nationals and (hopefully) one that fits the theme and mood of her SP music!

    Here's Carly (with her competitors): http://instagram.com/p/fydMj6MAfj/

    and Gracie: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/ne...hoto/455234531

    Which one is the older twin btw?
    I still don't know which one is the older.
    Mao often used costumes which were ready for Mai, I recall.

  4. #124
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    Who are we kidding, the old program might be entertaining for many weird reasons, but this new program is what will get her PCS points. Figure skating isn't modern dance. Originality and edginess are never all that appreciated, unless they come from skaters who don't have a chance to place anywhere near the podium. Do we really think judges count the actual amount of transitions? They just "feel" about it. With all the distractions from those violin notes no judge would be in a good mood to score her higher. I do think the old program is sort of a cult phenomenon so to speak, but it is not a wise choice for olympic season.

    I have to say, Gracie now does have a fighting chance for a fourth place finish.

  5. #125
    Custom Title cinnamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidont View Post
    I have to say, Gracie now does have a fighting chance for a fourth place finish.
    Who are the first three, Mao, Yuna, Julia? I think still that confidence of Ashley helps more at the big stage.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamon View Post
    I still don't know which one is the older.
    Mao often used costumes which were ready for Mai, I recall.
    Whatever happened to Mai Asada?

  7. #127
    ♔Princess Li Zijun♔ Gigi13's Avatar
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    I like the new program, but I agree Gracie is not a lyrical/artistic skater and they shouldn't try to make her into one she should do some fast paced music like Irina. I didn't like the old one at all but I thought it suited Gracie more aside from the awful music, I'm just not interested in Gracie's programs this year at all. Her sleeping beauty program was the program I hoped was going to be changed and they still have to change it so...I don't know but I do like this sp better than the last sp.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Whatever happened to Mai Asada?
    Today? She is supporting Mao. She says Mao is her pride. She works as a commentator in TV shows (not competitions) a lot, I think.

    And since this is Gracie's thread - I haven't decided which of her SP I like better yet.

  9. #129
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    Honestly, I feel that if Gracie were to skate to fast erratic music, we'd then end up complaining about her unwillingness to do anything about her undeveloped artistry.

    Sure, she may not be a skater with brilliant musicality. But is there anything wrong in attempting to help her develop it? I don't understand the whole "stick with what you've got" attitude, when she's obviously still maturing, both in artistry and technical aspects. From the direction skating has been going, and can be foreseen to be going in the next couple years, jumps can't be the only weapon in a skater's arsenal.

    Plus, at this point, she doesn't really have a shot at the podium anyway. Packaging and having the "perfect programs" only really matters when you're a top contender.

    Gracie will obviously be a frontrunner for the 2018 Olys. She's got ways to go, and from the programs she's been putting out, we can see that she knows that. Accordingly, she's been experimenting. Which is great.

    Never really understood the backlash for the Gershwin SP, nor for her new one. Let her skate. Maybe she'll sell it and get you to feel something. And if she doesn't, then that's too bad. She'll learn from it and move on.

  10. #130
    Custom Title Sochi_2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elee63 View Post
    Honestly, I feel that if Gracie were to skate to fast erratic music, we'd then end up complaining about her unwillingness to do anything about her undeveloped artistry.

    Sure, she may not be a skater with brilliant musicality. But is there anything wrong in attempting to help her develop it? I don't understand the whole "stick with what you've got" attitude, when she's obviously still maturing, both in artistry and technical aspects. From the direction skating has been going, and can be foreseen to be going in the next couple years, jumps can't be the only weapon in a skater's arsenal.

    Plus, at this point, she doesn't really have a shot at the podium anyway. Packaging and having the "perfect programs" only really matters when you're a top contender.

    Gracie will obviously be a frontrunner for the 2018 Olys. She's got ways to go, and from the programs she's been putting out, we can see that she knows that. Accordingly, she's been experimenting. Which is great.

    Never really understood the backlash for the Gershwin SP, nor for her new one. Let her skate. Maybe she'll sell it and get you to feel something. And if she doesn't, then that's too bad. She'll learn from it and move on.
    Well said. Everyone is very critical of Gracie and every step she takes. She knows this isn't her year. She's still in the process of developing her style. By the time 2018 comes around, she will hopefully have worked all the kinks out, and be a major threat for the podium.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sochi_2014 View Post
    Well said. Everyone is very critical of Gracie and every step she takes. She knows this isn't her year. She's still in the process of developing her style. By the time 2018 comes around, she will hopefully have worked all the kinks out, and be a major threat for the podium.
    I agree with both above posters. Why are people so impatient and demanding her to deliver NOW? Is it because USA did not medal in 2010 so they want back on it? Isn't Ashley more likely the contender? I do think a skater should play their strengths, but what's wrong with trying a softer touch? She's getting criticized on all sides, and it's also being pointed at Frank Carroll. I think Gracie's time to be an Olympic contender will be in 2018. It isn't her time yet, so giver her a chance. I'm not a huge fan of the Gershwin music no matter who skated it, it's just to harsh with the violins and doesn't really show her speed and power. Let her do what she can do, and give her a chance to develop. Personally, I like Gracie, she has potential, just needs more polish and experience.

  12. #132
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    I guess part of the issue is that people are hyping her NOW. She's all over the NBC Olympics coverage. You don't see the same treatment for the up-and-comers of 2018 in the men, i.e. Max Aaron, Jason Brown and Joshua Farris, and the former is the reigning national champion!

    As a result, she's had a target on her back either because 1.) There's resentment that she's shining more their favorites 2.) She isn't necessarily getting the results that justify the treatment (for example, with the exception of Meryl and Charlie, none of the U.S. Ice Dancers are getting any attention despite medaling on the Grand Prix (and the Shibutanis/Chock and Bates medaled at both their events, something that Gracie did not do.)) and 3.) People perceive that her current form also does not justify the attention, especially on the program component side of things.

    That said, I do feel people are being overly hard on Gracie, so I agree with all of you above (i.e. Sochi_2014, coppertop, elee63) in that aspect of things. i think she's made quite a few improvements over the years.

    For example, look at her FS from 2011 at JGP Estonia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enfbO9TTbU8

    And now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4idjEkR-Bs8

    I think the most noticeable improvement is in her posture. In JGP, she's bent down quite a bit in building her speed, sort of reminiscent of Miki Ando. In the program above (and in her other skates this season), she definitely is not slouching as much and is using a lot more of her upper body in her choreography.

    I feel that people were so down on her previous SP or just on her skating in general that a lot of those improvements haven't been noticed or acknowledged (with the exception of a few).

    That said, I do miss the explosive height of her jumps, so I hope that everything is all worked out in the long run so we can see the big jumps and the refinement as well.

  13. #133
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    @NickMcCarvel
    .@GraceEGold talks #Sochi2014 pressure, how she got into #figureskating and why the sport is harder than it looks http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/grac...-pressure-head
    2:10 PM - 16 Dec 13
    https://twitter.com/NickMcCarvel/sta...06349634449409

    (Haven't read this article, but don't think a link was posted elsewhere on GS.)

  14. #134
    Custom Title Sochi_2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    @NickMcCarvel
    .@GraceEGold talks #Sochi2014 pressure, how she got into #figureskating and why the sport is harder than it looks http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/grac...-pressure-head
    2:10 PM - 16 Dec 13
    https://twitter.com/NickMcCarvel/sta...06349634449409

    (Haven't read this article, but don't think a link was posted elsewhere on GS.)
    Good article, and I really like the video that goes with it! The article says that she chose Sleeping Beauty for the LP because it was a tune that everyone could hum, and follow along. She also said that she moved well with it. It seems like it was a piece she was comfortable with.

  15. #135
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I guess part of the issue is that people are hyping her NOW. She's all over the NBC Olympics coverage. You don't see the same treatment for the up-and-comers of 2018 in the men, i.e. Max Aaron, Jason Brown and Joshua Farris, and the former is the reigning national champion!

    As a result, she's had a target on her back either because 1.) There's resentment that she's shining more their favorites 2.) She isn't necessarily getting the results that justify the treatment (for example, with the exception of Meryl and Charlie, none of the U.S. Ice Dancers are getting any attention despite medaling on the Grand Prix (and the Shibutanis/Chock and Bates medaled at both their events, something that Gracie did not do.)) and 3.) People perceive that her current form also does not justify the attention, especially on the program component side of things.

    That said, I do feel people are being overly hard on Gracie, so I agree with all of you above (i.e. Sochi_2014, coppertop, elee63) in that aspect of things. i think she's made quite a few improvements over the years.

    For example, look at her FS from 2011 at JGP Estonia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enfbO9TTbU8

    And now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4idjEkR-Bs8

    I think the most noticeable improvement is in her posture. In JGP, she's bent down quite a bit in building her speed, sort of reminiscent of Miki Ando. In the program above (and in her other skates this season), she definitely is not slouching as much and is using a lot more of her upper body in her choreography.

    I feel that people were so down on her previous SP or just on her skating in general that a lot of those improvements haven't been noticed or acknowledged (with the exception of a few).

    That said, I do miss the explosive height of her jumps, so I hope that everything is all worked out in the long run so we can see the big jumps and the refinement as well.
    I admit to being harder on Gracie, especially last season when her skating and results were unremarkable relative to the seemingly endless praise she received. This season I'm more irritated than anything but it's not Gracie's fault; it's the people steering her (coaches, choreographers). I see her potential and I don't really feel as though she's being presented in a way that will allow her to shine as brightly as she could.

    I see her improvements, mainly in her presentation. She looks a little more relaxed (sometimes) and she's projecting much better than last year. She's not rushing through her movements like last year either. I do think her stiffness has improved but not enough...her arms and knees are still too rigid for my tastes. My problem is the programs she's been given stifle her natural tendencies, ie. explosive power, great speed. I see the method in Frank's madness: the newer SP is geared towards what people expect to see from a top US woman. The refined lyrical approach is tradition in US skating. It's what the judges like to see and it's what they respond to but I honestly think Gracie would have been fine with the SP she had. It just needed tweaking.

    The music was the main problem; it was too rough on the ears but a different edit could have fixed that. Some of the choreography (particularly the footwork) needed some attention but, overall (once I muted the sound) I thought it was a solid program for Gracie. I didn't think the entire program needed to be scrapped. The "Sleeping Beauty" FS is the one they should have dumped.

    So now Gracie has a soft lyrical SP that requires elegance, finesse, grace and ease to pull off...but it's clear that kind of skating is not natural to her. She looks okay doing it, but at the same time I can tell it's a program she's trying to pull off. The first SP was a program that didn't require what this current one demands. She didn't need to be graceful, light or elegant which is great b/c those aren't her natural traits as a skater. The program felt like a better fit for the kind of skater Gracie is now.

    Given that the Olympics are so close, I feel like it'd have been smarter work with Gracie as is rather than to try to mold her into something she could be in the future, but isn't right now. They're making all of these changes so close to call time...I'm worried she won't be prepared. She is the only skater who hasn't had time to settle in despite having competed all season long. She's debuting a program at nationals and that's a tall order to fill, especially for Gracie who isn't known for performing well under pressure.

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