Gracie changing SP music? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Gracie changing SP music?

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Not many 6.0 skaters, Michelle included, had particularly intricate choreography. I think a lot of skaters start the season wanting to do more difficult programs but under 6.0 you were penalized harshly for jumping errors while more difficult programs only improved your score marginally. It hard to criticize a strategy of "watering down" choreography that resulted in 5 World Championships, even if the programs were in fact watered down from the original choreography.
 

TCAngel18

Medalist
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
OMG, these Kwan attacks are making angels lose wings. There were always nuances that separated all of the programs. Maybe the structures and elements were often similar but she still utilized them in different ways and did more artistically than anyone else. All while being a very technically sound and consistent competitor and performer.

Mandarin was a GREAT piece for her. It could have been even better, but I still love what she was attempting. It would have been amazing if she brought it back in 2005:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...Flatt-s-New-SP&p=541411&viewfull=1#post541411

;)

I just rewatched MM, and read your take on the program, and loved it! Yu- Na could have done this as well. Anyone think Ashley Wagner could hack it? Her niche seems to be powerful, character-driven pieces with a little insanity, and with the dissonance of Bartok, this seems to be in her wheelhouse.
 

IcyEdges

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
I think the choreographer is going to be Lori!

All I have to say about this....:no:


On the other topic being discussed in this thread about skaters changing choreography. As a choreographer you set down your vision (in these cases) with the skater and for the skater. The skater gets a general feel for it. Then over the next however many months and weeks they, you, and the coach work with it. Working out the kinks. There are many times that a choreographer will put something in that just doesn't work for the skater and in that case it's fixed.
With the example that was given earlier with Kurt Browning getting frustrated with his choreography being slightly changed, back then Kurt was just starting out as a choreographer. There were things he could have and probably gave the skater in question that didn't work and had to be fixed or worked through so that the program would flow and work for the skater. That's why you will see changes. This is also why many skaters start working on getting new choreography in April or May so they have many months to work out things before the public has to see it. I guarantee in most cases you are not seeing the first shot at or the original choreography of a program, many changes may have occurred.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
That was just his opinion. He had no way of knowing what Dean had originally envisioned. The comment was uncalled for, in my opinion.


He did have a way of knowing. He could have talked to Dean about it or even Michelle. Do you know Dick didn't talk to Dean about the program? Unless you do, then your conclusions are just your opinion.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
He did have a way of knowing. He could have talked to Dean about it or even Michelle. Do you know Dick didn't talk to Dean about the program? Unless you do, then your conclusions are just your opinion.

I have found no evidence that Chris Dean ever disavowed Michelle's Bolero program, and I have looked. Dick Button didn't say he spoke with Dean so that is not evidence of anything but his opinion. To assume otherwise is speculation.
 

SoundtracksOnIce

On the Ice
Joined
May 16, 2013
Between getting a new coach after the season starts and now scrapping her SP with a new one no judge will have seen before Nationals it's almost like Gracie is doing everything she can NOT to make it to Sochi. She just needs to work on her jumps right now to make it to the Olympics not spend time on yet another new program.

Interesting you would say this. I don't know as much about figure skating as I'd like, so forgive me if this is an obvious question. But I always figured if I were a competitive figure skater, I'd want my choreography to be new at Worlds or Olympics, not something everyone had seen all season. I'd train it of course long before that so it wasn't something I'd be in danger of flubbing) but I'd debut my new routines at Worlds or Olympics and then keep them until the following Worlds/Olympics (depending on the year). As long as you rehearsed the choreography by heart, what would be wrong with this?
 

penguin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Interesting you would say this. I don't know as much about figure skating as I'd like, so forgive me if this is an obvious question. But I always figured if I were a competitive figure skater, I'd want my choreography to be new at Worlds or Olympics, not something everyone had seen all season. I'd train it of course long before that so it wasn't something I'd be in danger of flubbing) but I'd debut my new routines at Worlds or Olympics and then keep them until the following Worlds/Olympics (depending on the year). As long as you rehearsed the choreography by heart, what would be wrong with this?

A program needs time to gel, and often they improve with every outing. Skaters really do need the experience of competing their programs to settle into them, and it's rare (impossible?) for it to be ready and perfect for such a huge event at Worlds or Olympics. Doing them in practice perfectly doesn't always translate into a perfect competitive performance.

You also really need to get the program in front of international judges with this scoring system so you can work on building up your score. You may THINK you have all the levels and requirements worked out, but sometimes skaters won't realize until they see the protocols that they're missing a feature that will get them the highest level or that they're violating a rule. (I'm thinking of dance teams getting deductions for extended lifts, or for doing a move that the judges deem illegal.) You don't want to find out at the Olympics that you had errors that could have been fixed.
 

penguin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
I'm not sure I understand your question. You can't separate skills from the choreography. Steps, setups, body movements, arrangement of jumps -- all that is part of a whole, not a piecemeal assortment of skills.
 

SoundtracksOnIce

On the Ice
Joined
May 16, 2013
I mean the jumps and spins and footwork. Of course I'd debut that ahead of time to make sure I wasn't going to get nailed with a deduction and know that I could hit everything consistently. But the choreography and music would be what I'd want to save to surprise people with at Worlds or Olympics.

But it would never happen for me. I do good to stay upright on ice on a sidewalk in wintertime! LOL.
 

penguin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
You can't do all your elements without the choreo and music without changing the program - you'd essentially be training two separate programs (or four, if we're talking both SP and LP), which is a serious waste of training time. Interpretation, transitions, and presentation are a huge part of the PCS score, and picking a different cut of music or changing your choreo would change up the entire feel of your program. I suppose somebody could do what you're suggesting, but it would be a recipe for failure imo. I think most skaters would rather optimize their chances for a clean skate than risk it because they wanted to surprise people.
 

SoundtracksOnIce

On the Ice
Joined
May 16, 2013
Wow, I honestly had no idea choreography affected jumps and other elements. (Other than obviously not taking the time to set up properly and footwork, where you have to do both at the same time) I always figured it was more like the floor routines in gymnastics - you could do a RO-bh-double layout no matter what music/choreography you did with it. So the important thing was to have your triple-triple consistent and then you could do it no matter if you were performing to Swan Lake, Les Miserables, or Riverdance.

Is this only because of the COP system and it being more complex, or has it always been this way?
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
I have found no evidence that Chris Dean ever disavowed Michelle's Bolero program, and I have looked. Dick Button didn't say he spoke with Dean so that is not evidence of anything but his opinion. To assume otherwise is speculation.

Dick didn't say how he got his information.

A well respected poster on the Kwan forum who seemed to have privy to inside information (none of the information she provided ever turned out wrong) posted:

The words was after Dean watched Campbell's broadcasting, Dean called Rafael "It is very important that Michelle skates to the original one". Thus the next competetion they used the exact Dean version.....IMO, spent that type money asking for top choreographer to choregraph a program for her, she at least honered Dean by skating at least ONCE the COMPLETE Dean version 'Bolero'. Considering she only skated the program 5 times in public, and with all those adjustments needed for CoP, ONCE was not that bad, IMO.
 

Olderbear

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Getting back to Gracie: Does anyone even know what the new SP is? Inquiring minds want to know! Has Frank said anything?
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Getting back to Gracie: Does anyone even know what the new SP is? Inquiring minds want to know! Has Frank said anything?

On Wednesday night (Dec 11), Gold will perform her SP for a public audience.
This Disson show will not be televised until February (the weekend before the Olympics start), but no doubt the news of her music choice will be available immediately.

@GraceEGold
Traveling to NJ today to perform my new short program at the #AmericanTribute ice show! #excited #AmericanLegends
2:02 PM - 9 Dec 13
https://twitter.com/GraceEGold/status/410167572609662977

ETA:
It's quite an opportunity for Gold's new SP, if she performs it well, to make a strong impression on a lot of significant eyeballs -- even though it is "just" a show. :popcorn:
Wagner and Zawadzki also are cast members, so they will be among the first to see Gold's new SP live.
As will the many former Olympians -- going back numerous decades -- who are scheduled to appear in the show.​
 
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