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Thread: Gracie changing SP music?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    DMD, if everyone agrees (including FrankC and co) that she's a power skater, they will likely pick something like what Bebe Liang had musically when working with FrankC. Didn't she have a delightful program to Sorcerer's Apprentice?
    That was a great program for Bebe, and I think Gracie is much more refined than Liang so she could pull something like that off wonderfully.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Problem is Frank Carroll likes his skaters to have programs that someone like Michelle Kwan would skate to. Gracie is not that kind of skater and i'm afraid that's what he's going to do. She needs something that Irina would have skated to that would highlight her speed and power. Anyone know who the choreographer will be?
    You got that right.

  3. #48
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Right Doris. And even I was wondering what in the heck was Liang thinking to complete this choreo. If I am not mistaken Kwan's choreo to Scheherezade was also by Kawahara. Kwan did her dumbed down thing, like the year before when even Dean would not take any ownership of her program that he supposedly crafted. Nope, he knew she ignored every nuance, every phrase. She skated this program to Rodrigo music. Same set up, same choreo, same everything. I was glad Dean said 'NOOOOO this isn't my choreography!!'

    Mandarin was not a masterpiece. Watch it, it's all the same.

  4. #49
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    ^ You're reading the wrong Bible!

  5. #50
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    I think the choreographer is going to be Lori!

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    Right Doris. And even I was wondering what in the heck was Liang thinking to complete this choreo. If I am not mistaken Kwan's choreo to Scheherezade was also by Kawahara. Kwan did her dumbed down thing, like the year before when even Dean would not take any ownership of her program that he supposedly crafted. Nope, he knew she ignored every nuance, every phrase. She skated this program to Rodrigo music. Same set up, same choreo, same everything. I was glad Dean said 'NOOOOO this isn't my choreography!!'

    Mandarin was not a masterpiece. Watch it, it's all the same.

  7. #52
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    OMG, these Kwan attacks are making angels lose wings. There were always nuances that separated all of the programs. Maybe the structures and elements were often similar but she still utilized them in different ways and did more artistically than anyone else. All while being a very technically sound and consistent competitor and performer.

    Mandarin was a GREAT piece for her. It could have been even better, but I still love what she was attempting. It would have been amazing if she brought it back in 2005:

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post541411


  8. #53
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    only two angels lost their wings... I'm not too worried

  9. #54
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    When I saw this I was thinking of Bebe's Sorcerer's Apprentice for Gracie
    I mentioned that 2 up! LOL!

  10. #55
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I know...I saw it...great minds think alike, I guess

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    Right Doris. And even I was wondering what in the heck was Liang thinking to complete this choreo. If I am not mistaken Kwan's choreo to Scheherezade was also by Kawahara. Kwan did her dumbed down thing, like the year before when even Dean would not take any ownership of her program that he supposedly crafted. Nope, he knew she ignored every nuance, every phrase. She skated this program to Rodrigo music. Same set up, same choreo, same everything. I was glad Dean said 'NOOOOO this isn't my choreography!!'

    Mandarin was not a masterpiece. Watch it, it's all the same.
    When did Dean "disown" ownership of Michelle's Bolero? Here is her first version of Bolero. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdM6yxjYli0 Is this the Dean version? It is not all that much different from later versions, which by Worlds had to be changed to comply with the new judging system. Michelle was also injured during the 2005 season--read Artunian's interview, posted here recently. So some of the changes were no doubt due to what Michelle could or couldn't do at the time. If being injured is being "dumb," I guess you can call it "dumbing down."

    And no one said that "Mandarin" (choreographed by Oppegard) was a masterpiece. It was said that it had the potential to be a masterpiece.

    Michelle did many unique programs in her long career--look at Lamento D'Ariane or Song of the Black Swan. Her Scheherazade was also quite different from earlier programs and was hardly "dumbed down." And in her later long programs, which are the ones most cited as being "the same," she made up for the less intricate content with passion and excitement--see Tosca at Nationals, for example. And her short programs can't be ignored, either. Spartacus, her last, was very different from earlier short programs. At World's, she had to change it, to make it COP compliant, which was unfortunate. The Feeling Begins was also a unique program for Michelle.

    If you want to talk about all programs being "the same," let's talk about programs under IJS. Even Yu Na's programs are not all that different, one to the next.

  12. #57
    Pigs CAN fly! TCAngel18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    OMG, these Kwan attacks are making angels lose wings. There were always nuances that separated all of the programs. Maybe the structures and elements were often similar but she still utilized them in different ways and did more artistically than anyone else. All while being a very technically sound and consistent competitor and performer.

    Mandarin was a GREAT piece for her. It could have been even better, but I still love what she was attempting. It would have been amazing if she brought it back in 2005:

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post541411

    Thank you! I said that Mandarin was MY favorite program of hers, and had the POTENTIAL to be a masterpiece. In no way did I insinuate that it already was a masterpiece. Clean programs always create more excitement, so if she competed it clean, the program may have gotten more traction. Except she chose to debut it during the idiotic 2-a-day Superfinal! Thank Jeebus that they did away with that. Michelle always kept a similar program structure and changed small choreographic nuances to differentiate the programs. Which IMO is smart.

    Shoutout to Jenaj for also correctly interpreting my post :D

  13. #58
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    When did Dean "disown" ownership of Michelle's Bolero? Here is her first version of Bolero. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdM6yxjYli0 Is this the Dean version? It is not all that much different from later versions, which by Worlds had to be changed to comply with the new judging system. Michelle was also injured during the 2005 season--read Artunian's interview, posted here recently. So some of the changes were no doubt due to what Michelle could or couldn't do at the time. If being injured is being "dumb," I guess you can call it "dumbing down."
    As I recall Dean "disowned" it before she debuted it because she took out a lot of choreography and he was frustrated by it.

    FWIW - Kurt Browning got frustrated on air with Evan Lysacek's changes to Kurt's choreography of an SP he did for him just a few years after that, so it's not just a Kwan thing. I'm sure all skaters do it to some extent.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    Kwan did her dumbed down thing, like the year before when even Dean would not take any ownership of her program that he supposedly crafted. Nope, he knew she ignored every nuance, every phrase.
    I maintain that it was Morozov's fault.

    Dean (pre-Nationals): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdM6yxjYli0
    Morozov (Worlds): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgYMR6B8s8I

    Definite differences in choreography.

    ETA: Oops. Someone beat me to it.

  15. #60
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    In this video Dick said it was not Dean's work (near the end of the performance)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsEDGn0jRQk

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