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Thread: Gracie changing SP music?

  1. #61
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    Is Frank going to try to pull off another Salome with Gracie?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Is Frank going to try to pull off another Salome with Gracie?
    Dear God let's hope not.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    In this video Dick said it was not Dean's work (near the end of the performance)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsEDGn0jRQk
    That was just his opinion. He had no way of knowing what Dean had originally envisioned. The comment was uncalled for, in my opinion.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    As I recall Dean "disowned" it before she debuted it because she took out a lot of choreography and he was frustrated by it.
    .
    Support, please?

  5. #65
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    Support, please?
    It's only what I recall, it was in an article or interview "way back when" so I'm not going to waste a bunch of time trying to find it.

  6. #66
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    Not many 6.0 skaters, Michelle included, had particularly intricate choreography. I think a lot of skaters start the season wanting to do more difficult programs but under 6.0 you were penalized harshly for jumping errors while more difficult programs only improved your score marginally. It hard to criticize a strategy of "watering down" choreography that resulted in 5 World Championships, even if the programs were in fact watered down from the original choreography.

  7. #67
    Pigs CAN fly! TCAngel18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    OMG, these Kwan attacks are making angels lose wings. There were always nuances that separated all of the programs. Maybe the structures and elements were often similar but she still utilized them in different ways and did more artistically than anyone else. All while being a very technically sound and consistent competitor and performer.

    Mandarin was a GREAT piece for her. It could have been even better, but I still love what she was attempting. It would have been amazing if she brought it back in 2005:

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post541411

    I just rewatched MM, and read your take on the program, and loved it! Yu- Na could have done this as well. Anyone think Ashley Wagner could hack it? Her niche seems to be powerful, character-driven pieces with a little insanity, and with the dissonance of Bartok, this seems to be in her wheelhouse.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by flying camel View Post
    I think the choreographer is going to be Lori!
    All I have to say about this....


    On the other topic being discussed in this thread about skaters changing choreography. As a choreographer you set down your vision (in these cases) with the skater and for the skater. The skater gets a general feel for it. Then over the next however many months and weeks they, you, and the coach work with it. Working out the kinks. There are many times that a choreographer will put something in that just doesn't work for the skater and in that case it's fixed.
    With the example that was given earlier with Kurt Browning getting frustrated with his choreography being slightly changed, back then Kurt was just starting out as a choreographer. There were things he could have and probably gave the skater in question that didn't work and had to be fixed or worked through so that the program would flow and work for the skater. That's why you will see changes. This is also why many skaters start working on getting new choreography in April or May so they have many months to work out things before the public has to see it. I guarantee in most cases you are not seeing the first shot at or the original choreography of a program, many changes may have occurred.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    That was just his opinion. He had no way of knowing what Dean had originally envisioned. The comment was uncalled for, in my opinion.

    He did have a way of knowing. He could have talked to Dean about it or even Michelle. Do you know Dick didn't talk to Dean about the program? Unless you do, then your conclusions are just your opinion.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    He did have a way of knowing. He could have talked to Dean about it or even Michelle. Do you know Dick didn't talk to Dean about the program? Unless you do, then your conclusions are just your opinion.
    I have found no evidence that Chris Dean ever disavowed Michelle's Bolero program, and I have looked. Dick Button didn't say he spoke with Dean so that is not evidence of anything but his opinion. To assume otherwise is speculation.

  11. #71
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Between getting a new coach after the season starts and now scrapping her SP with a new one no judge will have seen before Nationals it's almost like Gracie is doing everything she can NOT to make it to Sochi. She just needs to work on her jumps right now to make it to the Olympics not spend time on yet another new program.
    Interesting you would say this. I don't know as much about figure skating as I'd like, so forgive me if this is an obvious question. But I always figured if I were a competitive figure skater, I'd want my choreography to be new at Worlds or Olympics, not something everyone had seen all season. I'd train it of course long before that so it wasn't something I'd be in danger of flubbing) but I'd debut my new routines at Worlds or Olympics and then keep them until the following Worlds/Olympics (depending on the year). As long as you rehearsed the choreography by heart, what would be wrong with this?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundtracksOnIce View Post
    Interesting you would say this. I don't know as much about figure skating as I'd like, so forgive me if this is an obvious question. But I always figured if I were a competitive figure skater, I'd want my choreography to be new at Worlds or Olympics, not something everyone had seen all season. I'd train it of course long before that so it wasn't something I'd be in danger of flubbing) but I'd debut my new routines at Worlds or Olympics and then keep them until the following Worlds/Olympics (depending on the year). As long as you rehearsed the choreography by heart, what would be wrong with this?
    A program needs time to gel, and often they improve with every outing. Skaters really do need the experience of competing their programs to settle into them, and it's rare (impossible?) for it to be ready and perfect for such a huge event at Worlds or Olympics. Doing them in practice perfectly doesn't always translate into a perfect competitive performance.

    You also really need to get the program in front of international judges with this scoring system so you can work on building up your score. You may THINK you have all the levels and requirements worked out, but sometimes skaters won't realize until they see the protocols that they're missing a feature that will get them the highest level or that they're violating a rule. (I'm thinking of dance teams getting deductions for extended lifts, or for doing a move that the judges deem illegal.) You don't want to find out at the Olympics that you had errors that could have been fixed.

  13. #73
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Oh, I'd definitely want the skills debuted ahead of time. I just meant choreography.

  14. #74
    Tripping on the Podium penguin's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I understand your question. You can't separate skills from the choreography. Steps, setups, body movements, arrangement of jumps -- all that is part of a whole, not a piecemeal assortment of skills.

  15. #75
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I mean the jumps and spins and footwork. Of course I'd debut that ahead of time to make sure I wasn't going to get nailed with a deduction and know that I could hit everything consistently. But the choreography and music would be what I'd want to save to surprise people with at Worlds or Olympics.

    But it would never happen for me. I do good to stay upright on ice on a sidewalk in wintertime! LOL.

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