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Thread: Men SP - 2013 Rostelecom Cup

  1. #46
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    Machida and Javier PCs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kovtun PCs

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Kovtuns PCS are higher than Machidas. I don't know if I'm supposed to cry or laugh about that.
    Being Japanese doesn't equate automatic better SS or higher PCS even though I heard the same thing last year when Fernandez was beating Hanyu in PCS.

    Put it this way, Kovtun had a better skate and he used the momentum from landing his big jumps to sell it to the best of his ability. It doesn't mean this score will necessary repeat in a future competition or that it has become a new normal for him.

  3. #48
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    could some kind and knowlegeable person out there pls explain the national bias shown in the judging at these GP events. I see it all the time and especially today in Russia ...BUT the judges arent local Russian judges ,they are from all over the world so why do they insist on inflating the scores of local favorites. I know it isnt just this event but Canada ( especially last year ) and others too . Are they trying to ensure getting invited back the next year , is pressure put on them by local officials - how and why does this happen - its a travesty for the skaters and quite frankly , a turn off for the fans too ????
    Grrrrrrrrrr!!

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottadance View Post
    could some kind and knowlegeable person out there pls explain the national bias shown in the judging at these GP events. I see it all the time and especially today in Russia ...BUT the judges arent local Russian judges ,they are from all over the world so why do they insist on inflating the scores of local favorites. I know it isnt just this event but Canada ( especially last year ) and others too . Are they trying to ensure getting invited back the next year , is pressure put on them by local officials - how and why does this happen - its a travesty for the skaters and quite frankly , a turn off for the fans too ????
    Grrrrrrrrrr!!
    I don't understand what is this rage about. Kovtun just landed two clean Quads in a SP, a feat rarely seen and scored decently in a pretty weak field due to multiple withdraws and less-than-stellar skates from the seeded skaters. He arguably delivered the performance of his career so far and ended up with the 2nd highest PCS of the segment while having the best performance of the day. Sorry, I don't see anything remotely controversial about this event. As for any attempt to compare scores between different competitions, you may as well take a tea leaf and start reading.

  5. #50
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottadance View Post
    could some kind and knowlegeable person out there pls explain the national bias shown in the judging at these GP events. I see it all the time and especially today in Russia ...BUT the judges arent local Russian judges ,they are from all over the world so why do they insist on inflating the scores of local favorites. I know it isnt just this event but Canada ( especially last year ) and others too . Are they trying to ensure getting invited back the next year , is pressure put on them by local officials - how and why does this happen - its a travesty for the skaters and quite frankly , a turn off for the fans too ????
    Grrrrrrrrrr!!
    I haven't seen how big the audience is in Russia, but Canada and Japan have a huge audience. When the crowd gets involved a good program becomes electric. I suppose the judges are susceptible to this kind of response from an arena. Why didn't Ashley get a boost at Skate America? Well, except for that sweet woman who screamed for everyone, it wasn't a lively response from the arena filled with all of thirty spectators.

    It isn't right, but think of it this way. Skating on home ice can bring rewards. But conversely it could make a skater more nervous and ruin the performance.

  6. #51
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Being Japanese doesn't equate automatic better SS or higher PCS even though I heard the same thing last year when Fernandez was beating Hanyu in PCS.

    Put it this way, Kovtun had a better skate and he used the momentum from landing his big jumps to sell it to the best of his ability. It doesn't mean this score will necessary repeat in a future competition or that it has become a new normal for him.
    I don't understand your first sentence. What does a skater's nationality have to do with getting higher PC's. Seriously I want to know.

  7. #52
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz
    Being Japanese doesn't equate automatic better SS or higher PCS even though I heard the same thing last year when Fernandez was beating Hanyu in PCS.
    Huh? What has being japanese got to do with it? And throwing out some Hanyu-related thing I don't even remeber... uhm.
    I'll tell you what has something to do with it: Skating Skills. Machidas are really good and easily far above Kovtuns. Choreography. Kovtuns isn't even close to Machidas. Transitions. The same again. Interpretation. I don't even want to say it. And even with Kovtun being cleaner, Machidas performance was stronger too.
    I couldn't care less about Machida being japanese here. He's the way better skater, that's what I care about.

  8. #53
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    I don't understand your first sentence. What does a skater's nationality have to do with getting higher PC's. Seriously I want to know.
    Not sure how long WL has been involved with skating, so maybe I'm reaching. It might seem the Japanese skaters always get higher SS/PCS. Well, there is a simple answer to that. The Japanese skaters focus on impeccable SS and PCS. They don't get the high SS because they are Japanese, they get them because they worked hard on them. I am amazed at the depth of the Japanese men. And all of them have excellent SS. It does not appear Russian men take great priority learning excellent SS, which makes sense because all these up and coming Russian men grew up with Plushenko as their idol. He was not known for his SS or PCS, even though he was always near the top....

  9. #54
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    Thera actually a big Tes advantage in doing 2 quads over what Machida did. you can argue about pcs but Tes I don't believe is debatable and with pcs 7 or even 8 is neutral now and if you think someone is going to get 4 or 5 or even lower like 2 it isn't going to happen. Ever! Not if you are even halfway decent like kovtun and land 2 quads.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I haven't seen how big the audience is in Russia, but Canada and Japan have a huge audience. When the crowd gets involved a good program becomes electric. I suppose the judges are susceptible to this kind of response from an arena. Why didn't Ashley get a boost at Skate America? Well, except for that sweet woman who screamed for everyone, it wasn't a lively response from the arena filled with all of thirty spectators.

    It isn't right, but think of it this way. Skating on home ice can bring rewards. But conversely it could make a skater more nervous and ruin the performance.
    the audience here was more lively and into the skaters more than Canada or Japan
    a filled arena is not what makes the inflated boost

    its clean programs on home ice

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    I don't understand your first sentence. What does a skater's nationality have to do with getting higher PC's. Seriously I want to know.
    It seems to me, there is a contingent of fans out here who treat PCS as some sort of Reputation Ranking score as opposed to what the skater(s) actually did in a competition. For example, one of the most common rage-post I see here is so and so complain about how X can possibly score better than Y in PCS despite X having a less-than-stellar performance. If you compile all those X together, 8 out 10, they turn out to be Japanese skaters in these forums. Nothing scientific to be sure, but this phenomenon went so overboard that people could even recall facts incorrectly, for example, recalling that Osmond beating Suzuki in PCS at the 2012 Skate Canada FS even though she actually did not. My observation is that there is a strong reputation bias towards Japanese skaters here such that even when they don't skate well, many of their fans complain about their PCS, either not high enough or should have been higher than so and so. But why should they? Sure, when called out about it, they are going to deny it has anything to do with nationality but to the specific skater. Let's just say these are not consistent with what's being observed here.

  12. #57
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    MEN'S SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS (By Starting Order)

    Warm-Up Group 1

    1. Misha GE (UZB) Short Program, 2nd Copy
    2. Peter LIEBERS (GER) Short Program
    3. Maxim KOVTUN (RUS) Short Program, 2nd Copy
    4. Artur GACHINSKI (RUS) Short Program

    Warm-Up Group 2

    5. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS)
    WD Joshua FARRIS (USA)
    7. Richard DORNBUSH (USA)
    8. Tatsuki MACHIDA (JPN) Short Program
    9. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) Short Program, 2nd Copy

    RESULT

    Overall Result, Segment Result, Protocols

  13. #58
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    It seems to me, there is a contingent of fans out here who treat PCS as some sort of Reputation Ranking score as opposed to what the skater(s) actually did in a competition.
    That's what the judges do, dear. Get it right.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    It does not appear Russian men take great priority learning excellent SS, which makes sense because all these up and coming Russian men grew up with Plushenko as their idol. He was not known for his SS or PCS, even though he was always near the top....
    Kovtun skated a great SP.
    But what do you know about Plushy's PCS and SS? Check it, please. In 2005-2006 he received higher PCS like Buttle or Lambiel on every competitions.. In 2012 at ECH he received really high PCS.

  15. #60
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    Prior to this event, Maxim's highest PCS at a SP was 36.43 at Cup of China. Before that it was 34.96 at Euros 2013.

    The kid's like the Jeffersons and keeps moving on up. Or there was some mighty fine home cooking at COR.

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