Ice Dance SD - 2013 Rostelecom Cup

chuckm · Nov 22, 2013

I'd say the Russian team medal is in the bag.

But 72.24 for Lipnitskaia and 92.53 for Kovtun is putting dibs on individual Olympic medals (gold for Lip), and of course dumping Weaver/Poje for B/S.

But if the GPF scores don't validate the crap CoR generates, there might be a problem...

bigsisjiejie · Nov 22, 2013

bigdeal said:
This Alla Shekovtseva- KatalinAlpern referee, technical caller duo was not created without a purpose to try to manipulate even Olympic result in the favour of the weak Russians, but they went MUCH too far.
Where is Mr.Cinquanta a few weeks before Olympic Games in Russia???????

I knew when I saw the officials that the fix was going to be in. We're back in the bad ol' Cold War days, all over again with Russian cheating and manipulation. I don't expect Cinquanta will do squat but if I were the other federations whose skaters got screwed over here, I'd certainly be giving the IOC a heads-up about corruption amongst senior ISU officials. And the referee/tech panels officially act as representatives of the ISU rather than their home federations.

wallylutz · Nov 22, 2013

However corrupt you believe Alla Shekovtseva is, she is not part of the Technical Panel here and does not have a say on the Levels. Now, if you want to allege there are things going on behind the scenes, then she or someone else doesn't even need to be on the panel to accomplish that.

I realize emotions run high right now, understandably so, but one needs to put things in perspective. We simply don't know what happened, only people who are there can tell us what was going on. To be honest, I am perplexed because it is quite unlike the Russians to be so blatant in their manipulation (if this were the case, again not proven yet) - they are usually very subtle for obvious reasons : 1) To avoid controversies and media attention 2) To make the manipulation effective and repeatable in the future

Call me cynical, I am not yet convinced the SD results was manipulated but do find it very odd and more than curious. I want to review the Finnsteps when the videos become available. There could be other explanations for these results but in any event, I expect the FD scoring will be much more "aligned".

Jammers · Nov 22, 2013

The Russian have never been subtle about their cheating. Almost all the time the Soviet Union and their communist buddies would prop up on of their own whether they deserved it or not. The other communist countries followed right along like the lap dogs they were.

splatgoesthequad · Nov 22, 2013

Did anyone notice with the first Russian team and with B/S that they slowed down music? The Big Bad Voodoo Daddy number was adjusted to a slower tempo to fit for time, just like the Sparkling Diamonds portion of B/S's music.

This event was interesting to say the least. So at what point will countries start entertaining the idea of pullling out of the Olympics? I understand that the politics occur and there will never be a "fair, unbiased" judging panel, but this was too much.

If half of the skaters in this competition wanted to pull out now, I wouldn't be upset at all, it's justified by the marks. The men's SD was the only thing that was even remotely close to being called fairly.

dorispulaski · Nov 22, 2013

golden411 said:
Foxtrot, Charleston, and Swing are the officially designated options for additional rhythms for this season's SD (in addition to the required Quickstep).

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...he-Short-Dance&p=794357&viewfull=1#post794357

Sorry if I am stating the obvious ... maybe I am not understanding your posts. :confused2:

Well, I know that I would like at least the Finnstep to be skated to something that sounds like a quickstep, especially when the requirements are explicitly that it look like a ballroom dance. However no tech panel has worried about this

The Finnstep is a fun, fast dance. The best way to describe it is that it resembles “sparkling champagne”. It is a ballroom type Quickstep, and should be danced very lightly, so to speak “over-the-top”. This dance is not serious, so it can even be performed a bit comically. Polka/Folklore character should be avoided.

It requires very crisp and tidy timing as well as footwork. The timing is the most important characteristic of the dance and lack of crisp and clean timing and character, should be penalized severely. The accent should always be at the beginning of the beat – not just on the beat. By skating the steps at the beginning of the beat, the couple achieves the required lightness. This dance measures the musicality of the couples.

Light, crisp & tidy did not describe B&S today, for sure.

chuckm said:
Bronze? They will be looking for SILVER, at least.

Well 68+ in the SD will not bring you out of the SD in the region of C&L or D&W or V&M. And I don't expect to see such crap numbers for W&P again, either.

Despite getting a gift, B&S are lower than I&K's SD score from TEB (but not much)

blackswanphoto said:
Isn't there a minimum technical score that Chock and Bates have to meet to even go to the Olympics?

They met it at last worlds.

wallylutz said:
However corrupt you believe Alla Shekovtseva is, she is not part of the Technical Panel here and does not have a say on the Levels. Now, if you want to allege there are things going on behind the scenes, then she or someone else doesn't even need to be on the panel to accomplish that.

As the ref Alla does the timing. If the length of time a difficult position was held dropped W&P's lift, as people suggested, she done-d it herownsome.

Jammers · Nov 22, 2013

I think this all goes back to the Russians feeling inferior to the west. They lost the cold war and communism was shown to be a lie and they want to show the western world they can beat us even if it's just in sports. Ice Dancing was once dominated by the Russians but now it's North Americans and that just won't be tolerated by them. They needed to cheat and dope to beat during the cold war in sports and it's still going on.

sky_fly20 · Nov 22, 2013

Jammers said:
I think this all goes back to the Russians feeling inferior to the west. They lost the cold war and communism was shown to be a lie and they want to show the western world they can beat us even if it's just in sports. Ice Dancing was once dominated by the Russians but now it's North Americans and that just won't be tolerated by them. They needed to cheat and dope to beat during the cold war in sports and it's still going on.

lol, communism was a western import, I suggest a fine reading
I really dont think Russia cares about Ice Dancing medal maybe a bronze medal but thats it
nothing in high regard to merit to bring back a cold war or a fantasized inferiority complex

how quick to forget, remember the SLC debacle ??? and it wasnt Russia who orchestrated it

Mrs. P · Nov 22, 2013

Jammers said:
I think this all goes back to the Russians feeling inferior to the west. They lost the cold war and communism was shown to be a lie and they want to show the western world they can beat us even if it's just in sports. Ice Dancing was once dominated by the Russians but now it's North Americans and that just won't be tolerated by them. They needed to cheat and dope to beat during the cold war in sports and it's still going on.

I think we can complain about the judging without going into Cold War politics, can't we?

ilmiom · Nov 22, 2013

Of course B/S were a bit overscored, but it's not like W/P had the skate of their life either. And why would you think W/P should get higher PCS? B/S are world bronze medalists, and they beat W/P 3 times out of 3 last season. They are top skaters and contenders for an Olympic medal, and the fact that some of you don't like them won't stop them from being great and getting high scores.

Everyone is so pissed that B/S got a home advantage, while this always happens in Canada, in Japan, and no one seems to mind. Let alone the US, especially the ladies event in Salt Lake City. Seriously, that was the most blatant politicking I've ever seen. And then of course there's Lysacek.

I appreciate the possibility to read comments by people from other countries, but this level of hate on all things Russian makes me sick. Why would you always assume that Russians don't deserve their scores and placements? Maybe they are just better than your favourites.

God, I don't even like B/S, but everybody here is so unreasonable...

splatgoesthequad · Nov 22, 2013

ilmiom said:
And then of course there's Lysacek.

Where did anyone say anything about Evan?

wallylutz · Nov 22, 2013

I watched all the clips I can find but none for W/P for some reasons, hopefully someone will upload later. Can't find anything that would justify all these Lv 1 calls for Finnsteps. Even C/B's Lv 1 rotational lift, I counted the number of turns, checked the entry, the lady's in-air position and everything I can think of at the moment, still lost as how that's called a Lv 1.

elif · Nov 22, 2013

I can't understand finnstep levels but maybe I can help with lifts. Chock and Bates's rotational lift called level1. I think technical panel didn't think Chock horizontal position as difficult pose. You can see from page 60 ISU rules are saying ''The Technical Panel will be strict regarding the “horizontal line” in order to give credit for the Difficult Pose.'' I don't know why they didn't call this lift a change of pose lift. This could be problem because Davis/White are doing same change of pose lift where they are creating two different poses.

http://youtu.be/-NdswcusTIg?t=3m10s

Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERON's straight line lift probably called level 2 because Cizeron's spread eagle position not stable for 3 seconds.

http://youtu.be/0tM-2VM_j9w?t=3m20s
You can see from page 46 what they wants. They listed what difficult entrys or positions are in page 40-44

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-204786-222009-173276-0-file,00.pdf

sky_fly20 · Nov 22, 2013

ilmiom said:
Of course B/S were a bit overscored, but it's not like W/P had the skate of their life either. And why would you think W/P should get higher PCS? B/S are world bronze medalists, and they beat W/P 3 times out of 3 last season. They are top skaters and contenders for an Olympic medal, and the fact that some of you don't like them won't stop them from being great and getting high scores.

Everyone is so pissed that B/S got a home advantage, while this always happens in Canada, in Japan, and no one seems to mind. Let alone the US, especially the ladies event in Salt Lake City. Seriously, that was the most blatant politicking I've ever seen. And then of course there's Lysacek.

I appreciate the possibility to read comments by people from other countries, but this level of hate on all things Russian makes me sick. Why would you always assume that Russians don't deserve their scores and placements? Maybe they are just better than your favourites.

God, I don't even like B/S, but everybody here is so unreasonable...

yes SLC was a bigger shame in ladies and pairs
maybe its a payback then, but guess who has the inferiority complex ?

W/P scores though would have been close not sure if they would beat B/S but close
SC was inflated in scoring too, 71+ Score for a first outing

some GS are nasty towards V/T and Julia too
a clear sign of intimidation perhaps

sky_fly20 · Nov 22, 2013

splatgoesthequad said:
Where did anyone say anything about Evan?

the inman mail and winning with a mere 3A

unpoko · Nov 22, 2013

Technical Controller Ms. Katalin ALPERN Israel
Technical Specialist Mr. Michael WEBSTER Germany
Assistant Technical Specialist Ms. Sylwia NOWAK-TREBACKA Poland

hmm, Germany is Western side. Israel is ...not the Soviet side, is it?

ice coverage · Nov 22, 2013

wallylutz said:
I watched all the clips I can find but none for W/P for some reasons, hopefully someone will upload later. ...

Weaver/Poje SD vid from today is here:

http://theweaverpojelove.tumblr.com/post/67769100475/kaitlyn-weaver-andrew-poje-sd-42nd-street

katia · Nov 22, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
lol, communism was a western import, I suggest a fine reading
I really dont think Russia cares about Ice Dancing medal maybe a bronze medal but thats it
nothing in high regard to merit to bring back a cold war or a fantasized inferiority complex

t

That's funny. Marxism was Western import, communism is Russian invention.
As for Russian not caring about Ice Dancing medal you should read Russan forums and their comments. They do care, some of them still have a kind of "cold war" complex and some of them think that there were a lot of "mooshrooms" (manipulation of results) during judging in the ice dancing.

@ilmiom
"level of hate on all things Russian makes me sick"
If you think there is great hate for all things Russian you should read some Russian ice dancing (and not only ice dancing) forums. Then you would see a real hate.................for all things US/West.

sky_fly20 · Nov 22, 2013

unpoko said:
Technical Controller Ms. Katalin ALPERN Israel
Technical Specialist Mr. Michael WEBSTER Germany
Assistant Technical Specialist Ms. Sylwia NOWAK-TREBACKA Poland

hmm, Germany is Western side. Israel is ...not the Soviet side, is it?

that wont be enough to stop the conspiracy in Ice Dancing :laugh:

caitie · Nov 22, 2013

ilmiom said:
Of course B/S were a bit overscored, but it's not like W/P had the skate of their life either. And why would you think W/P should get higher PCS? B/S are world bronze medalists, and they beat W/P 3 times out of 3 last season. They are top skaters and contenders for an Olympic medal, and the fact that some of you don't like them won't stop them from being great and getting high scores.

Everyone is so pissed that B/S got a home advantage, while this always happens in Canada, in Japan, and no one seems to mind. Let alone the US, especially the ladies event in Salt Lake City. Seriously, that was the most blatant politicking I've ever seen. And then of course there's Lysacek.

I appreciate the possibility to read comments by people from other countries, but this level of hate on all things Russian makes me sick. Why would you always assume that Russians don't deserve their scores and placements? Maybe they are just better than your favourites.

God, I don't even like B/S, but everybody here is so unreasonable...

It's not just B/S, IDK. I get what you're saying, but the judging seems really questionable to me at this event. But lol, the events you mention have me scratching my head re: politicking. I mean, I was a teenager obsessed with Michelle Kwan, but even I had to admit Sarah Hughes deserved to win. And I didn't think Lysacek's win over Plushenko was questionable, despite not being much of a fan of his. Which I guess just goes to show how subjective impressions can be of what constitutes questionable scoring, I suppose.

ETA:

golden411 said:
Weaver/Poje SD vid from today is here:

http://theweaverpojelove.tumblr.com/post/67769100475/kaitlyn-weaver-andrew-poje-sd-42nd-street

Ugh, I just watched this again and I really don't understand the low score. :scowl:

Ice Dance SD - 2013 Rostelecom Cup

chuckm

bigsisjiejie

wallylutz

Jammers

splatgoesthequad

Match Penalty

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Jammers

sky_fly20

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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

ilmiom

splatgoesthequad

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wallylutz

elif

sky_fly20

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sky_fly20

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unpoko

ice coverage

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katia

sky_fly20

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caitie

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