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Thread: Are B/S the Rus No.1 ?

  1. #46
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    A whole lotta stuff just got really weird on this thread. Like rabid beasts yeah!! Bring on the GPF or bust!! LOL.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagger View Post
    It is a pity that I&K were not included in the GPF. This is unfair. They love training in this season. I love everything that they do. In Paris, they got standing ovations, and it's a very difficult to do in Paris. The public can not be deceived. The public is not stupid.
    Tarasova saying good things about Ilinykh/Katsalapov Maybe this means they are not going to hold back Elena and Nikita at national championships like Weaver/Poje. Dance holds or not İlinykh/Katsalapov's dance looks beautiful and they are deserving national title for this year.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    It would help Russian dancers to look more prepared if they could have their programs essentially finished by early August, and not make huge changes later in the up season, something that seems to keep happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    A whole lotta stuff just got really weird on this thread. Like rabid beasts yeah!! Bring on the GPF or bust!! LOL.
    The topic is about B&S being number one. We are discusing B&S and their main on ice rivals I&K, do you know about somebody else who we forgot to talk about? I don't think some other couple would be able to reach number 1 in Russia.

    We are talking who is better/more deserving etc. What's wrong about it?

    GPF? But that would be off topic, Lena & Nikita are not there.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagger View Post
    Is it correct to compare the results of couples skated three seasons with the couple skated seven seasons? The age difference between Elena and Ekaterina is too 4 years (between Nikita and Dmitry 2, but I think the right to look for a weak partner, Nikita has long been a top skater).
    Talking about couple number 1….it is not about the age, it is about who is the best right now. I don’t understand argueing about the age. Tessa is younger than Meryl, does it mean she should win the Olympics 2014 because looking at age, she was progressing faster?

    How can you compare different season’s results with different judges/technical specialists and even different skaters from previous Olympic cycle? And every year there are some changements in judging system. Plus compulsory dance, how can you compare competition with and without compulsory dance? With bad compulsory dance couple had a big problem to get better placement in the rest of the competition. We all remember than Lena & Nikita were struggling a lot during their first senior waltz, with compulsory dance it would be more obvious and they wouldn’t finish fourth at Euros 2011.

    Well…look back in 2008, Bobrova & Soloviev are young couple, 2007 Junior Worlds winners, they are not counted as brilliant, nobody talks about them like about next Olympics champions….Russians had Domnina and Khokhlova, they didn’t need more….suddenly Maxim Shabalin has to withdraw because of injury and B&S suprisingly comes to their first Worlds. Like nobody who would be supported by Federation which put effort in Khohlova winning bronze there.

    Now 2010/11 season….Elena & Nikita won 2010 Junior Worlds, immediatelly everybody in Russia and not only in Russia talked about them like about future Olympic champions, there were many interviews and fotoshoots. I understand. They were lovely. And…Domnina&Shabalin finished career, Khokhlova&Novitski were forced to finish due to Novitski’s injury, Rubleva also finishing (she wasn’t counted as promising also), Russian Federation needed another couple for next cycle and for the Olympics in Sochi. They already had Bobrova, but reigning Junior Worlds champions sounds better than 2007 Junior Worlds champions. Federation and many people completedly forgot than Lena and Nikita were Junior number 2 during whole season, they lost to Monko&Khaliavin who dominanted at JGPF and Russian Junior Nats (Monko&Khaliavin were leading couple for whole season until Junior Worlds). Lena and Nikita won Junior Worlds, the most important competition in junior circuit and it changed everything. I&K came to GP 2010/10 like so great and talented kids, Russian Federation supported them and even with bad skating (and thanks to withdraw of some couples) they got bronze at COR 2010. I&K skated Russian Nats 2010 with mistakes but judges and Tarasova forgived (they are so young) puttting them in third and sending at Euros. At Euros another big propaganda about so talented kids and future Olympic gold medalist, talking about challenging Tessa and Meryl. Before Worlds a big documentary about Lena & Nikita was shown in TV, Lena promises to dedicate her Olympic gold medal to her grandmother. Everybody – Lena, Nikita, Alexander Zhulin, Vlasova, Lena’s mom and gradmom are happy how things and work is going, many compliments to coach team. I don’t remember documentary about couples before winning Olympics and Worlds, I only remember documentaries after the victories. I call this another big propaganda. So, as you see the situation when Bobrova and Lena came at Worlds for the first time was absolutely different.

    Only at 2010 Worlds after short dance Bobrova&Soloviev started to be counted like ,,supported team“ when Domnina&Shabalin already finished and Khokhlova&Novitski withdraw, and Bobrova finished eighth.

    If you are talking about Lena & Nikita fast progressing in results… do you mean that today they are more talented than Navka, Domnina, Annisina, Krylova, Grishuk, Fusar-Poli, Pechalat, Usova, Klimova…because all those couples started their senior career behind top 10? And because of that Lena & Nikita deserve number 1 in Russian Team?

  6. #51
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    I/K aren't in the GPF because they bombed their first event. They are the first alternate in the event that a team withdraws.

    IMO, they are a far more talented team than B/S, but their performances are also notoriously more erratic. You never know what you are going to get from I/K when they step on the ice. They can be brilliant, or they can be a mess.

    I don't see B/S (23 and 24) retiring after Sochi. They could easily continue on to 2018, barring injury, and considering that I/K are still not quite stable, the Russian federation will likely encourage them to stay in. None of the other Russian teams seem to have the talent or charisma to become the next big thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I/K aren't in the GPF because they bombed their first event.
    This. I don't understand why people are up in arms about B/S making the final and them not making it. Their levels in both segments at NHK were low, and rightfully cost them a podium spot (even though I'm no fan of the Shibs, they were technically superior).

    I am actually really surprised they won over P/B in France, when you would have though P/B with home ice advantage would have easily won (although the extended lift was a silly technicality that cost P/B the silver).

    I/K is one of my favourite teams to watch, but it's hardly unexpected that they didn't make the GPF.

    They were 9th at Worlds last year... B/S were 3rd... is it really all that surprising that B/S are being pushed as the top Russian ice dance team? I/K aren't going to magically jump from 9th to 3rd, so the Russian fed is better off pushing the reigning World bronze medalists (even if B/S are worse this year than I/K).

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Tarasova saying good things about Ilinykh/Katsalapov Maybe this means they are not going to hold back Elena and Nikita at national championships like Weaver/Poje. Dance holds or not İlinykh/Katsalapov's dance looks beautiful and they are deserving national title for this year.
    I hope they do too. Being Russian No. 1 for three years does not entitle you to be Russian No. 1's in an Olympic year. Their programs this year are so disappointing and we're not just talking in comparison to I/K. This is a title you earn at a National Championship each year. If I/K win so be it. If they don't just the same. I just have this sneaking suspicion with I/K it will not matter. Come Olympics if they skate better on the day they can beat almost anyone, with the only exception being V/M and D/W, for now They were very young, immature kids when they first burst on to the senior scene and it is just so heart warming to see them begin to develop their potential

  9. #54
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    At the GPF, I thought B&S's SD was much better-but then Dmitri fell in the FD, and they finished off the podium-so I think we have to wait to Russian Nationals to settle this question.

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    Hopefully B&S finishing off the podium at the Grand Prix final and falling again is a huge open door to I&K to take over Russian #1. They are by far the more talented and entertaining team.

  11. #56
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    I was rooting for B&S for a few seasons until now. I'm tired of crappy programs. A fall in the last 2 competitions. They were probably faster and more powerful than anybody but their content wasn't the toughest. Yet they can't handle the content with all these falls. 80s costumes and makeup.

  12. #57
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    I love their free dance program , except the final scream, please don´t hate me but I would loved this program for the Shibs. For me I/K FD program is boring and predictable, the only good thing about their program is the first lift although their SP is really good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Hopefully B&S finishing off the podium at the Grand Prix final and falling again is a huge open door to I&K to take over Russian #1. They are by far the more talented and entertaining team.
    It would be poor leading for I&K, if they would be able to beat B&S only in case when Ekaterina or Dmitri will fall.
    More or less talented, even Tarasova (who were mentioned above) keeps saying that talent is 10 percent of success and them you have to work and sacrifice and work and sacrifice.

    Lena and Nikita are very entertaining team... they would be even more entertaining if they had time to make a normal exhibition not just putting choreo from free skate with another music together - which persuades me that they really don't care what they are skating about or what music they are skating about - choreo from Ave Maria/Ghost used to such different music and stories like Capricious Horses by Vysotski, Someone Like You by Adele, at least Une Histoire d'Amour by Matthieu is similar to Ghost story a little bit but the rhythm is completely different.
    Dancing choreo, difficulty of program, skating skills, deep edges, close holds, timing and keeping the rhythm, high levels, expressing the feeling of the music, variability of dancer is not that entertaining but it is what is dance category about. But Hollywood directors would definitely agree with you! Entertaining on the first place. Dance and music lovers would like to see something more than entertaining only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    At the GPF, I thought B&S's SD was much better-but then Dmitri fell in the FD, and they finished off the podium-so I think we have to wait to Russian Nationals to settle this question.
    Personally I think you are right but I don't undestand a whole problem...it would never came across my mind who else could be number 1 than Bobrova after European Title/World Bronze medal/this year COR win/fourth qualification in row for GPF...but here we go...

    After GP part where those two teams didn't meet yet (maybe for a cup of coffee only )… the result is...
    I&K - fourth place, second place, didn't qualify for GPF
    B&S - second place, first place, qualified for GPF - after SD they were even third, because of the fall they were fourth in free dance and finished on fourth place overall...
    these results works for B&S...

    Watching for mistakes - both teams are fighting with levels, both teams are making mistakes (Lena stumbles, Ekaterina falls and makes Dmitri fall).

    Some people deeply wished to see I&K qualify for GPF. If we try to imagine...how about the result? The technical specialist was from Japan, that one who were in NHK Trophy. I quess looking at name it is a lady...a lady who strictly watches for levels and nobody is save if edges/requirements are NOT properly done (lena and Nikita were not the only couple whose levels were downgraded, but some other teams got their high levels, which means that even with that lady it is possible to achieve high levels). If TEB technical specialist excuses not perfect spin position and stumbling in diagonal step sequence, a japanese lady wouldn't forgive like she didn't forgive other teams. We all know that between NHK and TEB there were just few days, Lena and Nikita themself admitted they didn't practise even one full day between those two competitions. So there was no time for correction for getting higher levels, spin and steps were executed exactly the same at both competitions but levels were sudenly higher. In one week they improved in SD and FD about 8 points without practising anything, which proves that every technical specialist is on his own - more kind or less kind, as well as judges marks and points react not only at skaters but they also put more or less point comparing dance team to previous dance teams they saw before (I don't doubt that after Zhiganhina&Gazsi free dance Lena and Nikita looked like aliens to all judges). But in GPF there was that less kind and more strict technical specialist so we can suppose that levels would be lower again...so the marks)

    Another interesting moment...Lena and Nikita lost to Cappellini at NHK both in short dance and free dance, the same Cappellini who finished totally last at GPF.
    At TEB short dance Lena and Nikita lost to Pechalat who was fifth after short dance at GPF. Pechalat lost to Bobrova at both Cup of China and GFP in short dance.
    Comparing free dances looks to be more complicated - Lena won over Pechalat (but before lost free dance to Cappellini), and Pechalat won over Bobrova twice. But if judges would be more carefull and noticed Lena's stumble in step sequence, they would get minus GOE for the diagonal step sequence, if technical specialist would notice problematic posititon in dance spin and Lena's stumble in steps he would put the levels down as well and they would lost to Pechalat. Bobrova lost to Weaver at COR free dance, Weaver lost to Bobrova at GPF free dance.
    Bobrova looks to be the best in short dance, Pechalat looks to have the strongest free dance.
    I am not wise from this... I still prefer comparing dance teams at one competition because of things mentioning above.
    I am curious to see Russian Nationals, I wish all teams to do their best as well as I wish the same to all judges and technical specialist.

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    I would definitely not expect I/K to take over number one when they were hammered with 4 level 2's in a SD just a few weeks ago. Putting that number one would be a horrible mistake and why B/S have not lost a SD or FD in Russia since 2010. I/K could absolutely go to the Olympics and get mostly level 1's and 2's.

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