State of the U.S. Men: Post-GP season | Page 3 | Golden Skate

State of the U.S. Men: Post-GP season

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Since we're all relaxing and enjoying ourselves this Thanksgiving weekend, no better way to pass the time then to enjoy past videos. (And yes putting Evan in for now, since he hasn't announced WD and whether you like him or not, he is the reigning OGM).

Anyway, just for fun (and also to give you a sense of skaters' best), I present to you programs of our top Olympic team contenders in order of ISU personal best. I linked videos in first reference but did not include the link if the program is included other categories.

Of course, it's not a perfect comparison, because some of the personal bests came when certain rules weren't in place, but you get the idea.

Short Program
Evan Lysacek, 90.30, 2010 Olympics (02/16/2010)
Jeremy Abbott, 86.98, World Team Trophy 2012 (04/19/2012)
Jason Brown, 84.77, Trophee Eric Bompard 2013 (11/15/2013)
Richard Dornbush, 83.01, Four Continents Championships 2013 (02/08/2013)
Adam Rippon, 82.25, NHK Trophy 2013 (11/08/2013)
Max Aaron 78.20, World Championships 2013 (03/15/2013)
Ross Miner 76.89, Four Continents Championships 2012 (02/09/2012)
Joshua Farris, 75.84, World Junior Championships 2013 (02/28/2013)

SP TES
Evan Lysacek, 48.30, 2010 Olympics
Jason Brown, 45.98, Trophee Eric Bompard 2013
Richard Dornbush, 45.48, Four Continents Championships 2013
Jeremy Abbott, 45.40, NHK Trophy 2009 (11/06/2009)
Adam Rippon, 44.40, NHK Trophy 2013
Max Aaron, 43.56, World Championships 2013
Joshua Farris, 42.58, JGP Baltic Cup 2011 (09/15/2011)
Ross Miner, 41.68, Four Continents Championships 2012


SP PCS
Jeremy Abbott, 45.40, World Team Trophy 2012
Evan Lysacek, 42.00, 2010 Olympics
Jason Brown, 38.93, Skate America 2013 (10/18/2013)
Adam Rippon, 37.85, NHK Trophy 2013
Richard Dornbush, 37.53, Four Continents Championships 2013
Max Aaron, 36.56, NHK Trophy 2013 (11/08/2013)
Ross Miner, 36.56, Skate Canada 2013 (10/25/2013) (Not sure why his best PCS is from what is arguably his worst SP. I guess it would have been higher if he did better? :confused:)
Joshua Farris 36.03 Skate Canada 2013 (10/25/2013) (Like Ross, not a great SP, but alas his highest PCS to date is here).


Free Skate
Evan Lysacek, 167.37, 2010 Olympics (02/18/2013)
Max Aaron, 162.45, Skate America 2013 (10/19/2013)
Ross Miner 161.96, NHK Trophy 2012 (11/24/2012)
Adam Rippon, 160.98, Skate America 2013 (10/19/2013)
Jeremy Abbott 159.46, Grand Prix Final 2008 (12/13/2008)
Jason Brown 158.32, Trophee Eric Bompard (11/16/2013)
Joshua Farris 152.48, Junior World Championships 2013 (03/02/2013)
Richard Dornbush 151.88, World Championships 2011 (04/28/2011)

FS TES
Max Aaron, 90.47, Skate America 2013
Ross Miner, 86.74, NHK Trophy 2012
Evan Lysacek, 84.57, 2010 Olympics
Joshua Farris, 82.70, World Junior Championships 2013
Jeremy Abbott, 82.58, Grand Prix Final 2008
Adam Rippon, 82.52, Four Continents Championships 2010 (01/30/2010)
Jason Brown 81.03, Junior World Championships 2013 (03/02/2013)
Richard Dornbush, 79.97, JJunior Grand Prix Final 2010 (12/11/2010)

FS PCS
Evan Lysacek, 84.00, Grand Prix Final 2009
Jeremy Abbott, 83.94, World Team Trophy 2012
Adam Rippon, 82.08, Skate America 2013
Jason Brown, 80.12, Trophee Eric Bompard 2013
Richard Dornbush, 75.64, Four Continents Championships 2013 (02/09/2013)
Ross Miner, 75.22, NHK Trophy 2012
Max Aaron, 74.30, World Championships 2013
Joshua Farris, 73.78, Skate Canada 2013 (10/26/2013)
 

IcyEdges

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Since we're all relaxing and enjoying ourselves this Thanksgiving weekend, no better way to pass the time then to enjoy past videos. (And yes putting Evan in for now, since he hasn't announced WD and whether you like him or not, he is the reigning OGM).

Anyway, just for fun (and also to give you a sense of skaters' best), I present to you programs of our top Olympic team contenders in order of ISU personal best. I linked videos in first reference but did not include the link if the program is included other categories.

Of course, it's not a perfect comparison, because some of the personal bests came when certain rules weren't in place, but you get the idea.

Short Program
Evan Lysacek, 90.30, 2010 Olympics (02/16/2010)
Jeremy Abbott, 86.98, World Team Trophy 2012 (04/19/2012)
Jason Brown, 84.77, Trophee Eric Bompard 2013 (11/15/2013)
Richard Dornbush, 83.01, Four Continents Championships 2013 (02/08/2013)
Adam Rippon, 82.25, NHK Trophy 2013 (11/08/2013)
Max Aaron 78.20, World Championships 2013 (03/15/2013)
Ross Miner 76.89, Four Continents Championships 2012 (02/09/2012)
Joshua Farris, 75.84, World Junior Championships 2013 (02/28/2013)

SP TES
Evan Lysacek, 48.30, 2010 Olympics
Jason Brown, 45.98, Trophee Eric Bompard 2013
Richard Dornbush, 45.48, Four Continents Championships 2013
Jeremy Abbott, 45.40, NHK Trophy 2009 (11/06/2009)
Adam Rippon, 44.40, NHK Trophy 2013
Max Aaron, 43.56, World Championships 2013
Joshua Farris, 42.58, JGP Baltic Cup 2011 (09/15/2011)
Ross Miner, 41.68, Four Continents Championships 2012


SP PCS
Jeremy Abbott, 45.40, World Team Trophy 2012
Evan Lysacek, 42.00, 2010 Olympics
Jason Brown, 38.93, Skate America 2013 (10/18/2013)
Adam Rippon, 37.85, NHK Trophy 2013
Richard Dornbush, 37.53, Four Continents Championships 2013
Max Aaron, 36.56, NHK Trophy 2013 (11/08/2013)
Ross Miner, 36.56, Skate Canada 2013 (10/25/2013) (Not sure why his best PCS is from what is arguably his worst SP. I guess it would have been higher if he did better? :confused:)
Joshua Farris 36.03 Skate Canada 2013 (10/25/2013) (Like Ross, not a great SP, but alas his highest PCS to date is here).


Free Skate
Evan Lysacek, 167.37, 2010 Olympics (02/18/2013)
Max Aaron, 162.45, Skate America 2013 (10/19/2013)
Ross Miner 161.96, NHK Trophy 2012 (11/24/2012)
Adam Rippon, 160.98, Skate America 2013 (10/19/2013)
Jeremy Abbott 159.46, Grand Prix Final 2008 (12/13/2008)
Jason Brown 158.32, Trophee Eric Bompard (11/16/2013)
Joshua Farris 152.48, Junior World Championships 2013 (03/02/2013)
Richard Dornbush 151.88, World Championships 2011 (04/28/2011)

FS TES
Max Aaron, 90.47, Skate America 2013
Ross Miner, 86.74, NHK Trophy 2012
Evan Lysacek, 84.57, 2010 Olympics
Joshua Farris, 82.70, World Junior Championships 2013
Jeremy Abbott, 82.58, Grand Prix Final 2008
Adam Rippon, 82.52, Four Continents Championships 2010 (01/30/2010)
Jason Brown 81.03, Junior World Championships 2013 (03/02/2013)
Richard Dornbush, 79.97, JJunior Grand Prix Final 2010 (12/11/2010)

FS PCS
Evan Lysacek, 84.00, Grand Prix Final 2009
Jeremy Abbott, 83.94, World Team Trophy 2012
Adam Rippon, 82.08, Skate America 2013
Jason Brown, 80.12, Trophee Eric Bompard 2013
Richard Dornbush, 75.64, Four Continents Championships 2013 (02/09/2013)
Ross Miner, 75.22, NHK Trophy 2012
Max Aaron, 74.30, World Championships 2013
Joshua Farris, 73.78, Skate Canada 2013 (10/26/2013)

Thank you for that Mrs. P. That was very, very interesting. :)
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
The balance you speak of probably explains why he doesn't fall a whole lot. He didn't fall once at any of his international competitions last season (though fell three times over two segments at U.S. Nationals last year :eek: Hope it doesn't happen this year. Two of those falls were with the 3A, so I'm hoping we'll see fewer, well ideally none, this year).

This reminds me of my "old" favourite, Shawn Sawyer. While Shawn struggled to master the hardest jumps, he almost never fell in the last few years of his career. If there was a mistake it was often a two-foot or some other kind of iffy landing, but I was normally confident that his butt wouldn't touch the ice.
 

nam57

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Some of those scores are 3-4 years ago...
Stuff happens in that time! Look at the ladies. Contenders last Olympics; Flatt, Nagasu, Zhang now are happy when they score 20-30 points less. So adding Evan and some of those other ones does not make sense.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Some of those scores are 3-4 years ago...
Stuff happens in that time! Look at the ladies. Contenders last Olympics; Flatt, Nagasu, Zhang now are happy when they score 20-30 points less. So adding Evan and some of those other ones does not make sense.

As I said, it's not meant to be a perfect comparison. My goal is to show what these skaters look like when they perform well. And yes if their personal best was some time ago, that is an indicator of where one is in their career trajectory.

The people I included were all in the top 8 last year at Nationals. And as I said, Evan is still considered a contender until he WD.

I'll add Season's best videos, perhaps...

This reminds me of my "old" favourite, Shawn Sawyer. While Shawn struggled to master the hardest jumps, he almost never fell in the last few years of his career. If there was a mistake it was often a two-foot or some other kind of iffy landing, but I was normally confident that his butt wouldn't touch the ice.

A few people compared Jason to Shawn last season when he was still struggling with his 3A. However, in a positive light, both Jason and Shawn are both engaging performers with great flexibility and charisma!
Loved Shawn's Alice in Wonderland FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv2hBOJALYM I was absolutely thrilled he turned in such a great performance at his final Nationals!
 

80sskatergirl

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
I hope so also! I normally like the more lyrical skaters like Jeremy and Jason, but for some reason I also really like Ross. He seems so hardworking and not a headcase. He's gone to Tom Dickson for choreography (last season) and seems to be working on being more expressive. Now, if he could find his 3A (which seems to be missing) and at least rotate the quad, he would be in good shape!

Totally agree. I love the "lyrical" skaters but for some reason was drawn to Ross' skating since 2011 nationals. He is such a hard worker, and really puts everything into a performance. I'm hoping he throws it down at nationals and surprises everyone. I'm also happy to see he was in that "quad" video. The others have gotten so much press, and it seems Ross has been all but forgotten.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
ISU has a new spiffy TES scoretracker (http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/tes/stsmall.htm) and it includes senior Bs since it includes everything that counts toward meeting minimum TES scores. (Thanks Sylvia for posting the link over on FSU)

So here's the U.S. Men TES in the last two seasons (for those competing at the senior level at Nationals). Bold means the score was achieved this season. Everyone about the double line has TES minimums for worlds. Everyone above the single line has TES minimums for 4CC/Olympics. And everyone above the (********) has the top 6 (i.e. final group count) TES.

Short program
Jason BROWN 45.98 ( ISU GP Trophee Bompard 2013)
Richard DORNBUSH 45.48 (ISU Four Continents Championships 2013)
Adam RIPPON 44.40 (ISU GP NHK Trophy 2013)
Max AARON 44.57 (U.S. Int. FS Classic 2013)
Stephen CARRIERE 42.89 (U.S. Int. FS Classic 2013)
Keegan MESSING 42.36 (Cup of Nice 2012)
********************************************************
Joshua FARRIS 41.45 (World Junior Championships 2013)
Jeremy ABBOTT 40.35 (ISU GP Trophee Bompard 2012)
Douglas RAZZANO 40.11 (Ice Challenge 2012)
Ross MINER 38.80 (ISU GP NHK Trophy 2012)
Brandon MROZ 34.26 (Gardena Spring Trophy 2013)
=============================================
Grant HOCHSTEIN 33.13 (U.S. Int. FS Classic 2013)
Timothy DOLENSKY 32.60 (U.S. Int. FS Classic 2012)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lukas KAUGARS 20.33 (ISU JGP Sencila Bled Cup 2012)

Free Skate
Richard DORNBUSH 92.12 (Finlandia Trophy 2012)
Max AARON 90.47 (ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2013)
Ross MINER USA 86.74 (ISU GP NHK Trophy 2012) 24.11.2012
Joshua FARRIS 82.70 (World Junior Championships 2013)
Jason BROWN 81.03 (World Junior Championships 2013)
Adam RIPPON 79.90 (ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2013)
********************************************************************
Jeremy ABBOTT 78.25 (ISU GP NHK Trophy 2013)
Stephen CARRIERE 76.88 (U.S. Int. FS Classics 2013)
Keegan MESSING 74.52 (Nebelhorn Trophy 2012)
Timothy DOLENSKY 68.91 (U.S Int. FS Classic 2012)
Douglas RAZZANO 68.29 (ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2012)
================================================
Grant HOCHSTEIN 60.91 (US Int. FS Classic 2013)
Brandon MROZ 51.42 (Gardena Spring Trophy 2013)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lukas KAUGARS 30.53 (ISU JGP Sencila Bled Cup 2012)


No scores available for: Sean Rabbit, Phillip Warren, Daniel Raad, Scott Dyer and Robert Przepioski
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
NBC Olympics posted a photo gallery of the top U.S. men contenders: http://www.nbcolympics.com/photos/after-evan-whos-next-american-men-watch

With reigning Olympic champion Evan Lysacek officially out of the Sochi conversation, which two American men will step up?

Featuring Jeremy Abbott, Max Aaron, Adam Rippon, Ross Miner, Jason Brown, Joshua Farris and Richard Dornbush. AKA, the guys who competed on the Grand Prix this season.

The top 7 at Nationals will probably be from that group, though I can see Stephen Carriere spoiling the party.
 

pitterpatter

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
The Mens event at US Nationals is more unpredictable than even Japanese Nationals. So many contenders and such a level playing field. Looking forward to seeing these guys compete!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Sounds like Max pretty much has a new FS.

Nick McCarvel
‏@NickMcCarvel
After Grand Prix season, @MaxTAaron says he's re-worked his free skate. "We moved jumps around and jump passes. I have new music choices."
3:34 PM - 11 Dec 13
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Sounds like Max pretty much has a new FS.

Nick McCarvel
‏@NickMcCarvel
After Grand Prix season, @MaxTAaron says he's re-worked his free skate. "We moved jumps around and jump passes. I have new music choices."
3:34 PM - 11 Dec 13

Thanks for the news, Mrs. P.
So major changes were in store when Max casually ;) mentioned in his interview during Sectionals that he was heading to see Lori Nichol the next day. :think:
Sounds promising. :) :popcorn: Go, Max!
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Country
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Sounds like Max pretty much has a new FS.

Nick McCarvel
‏@NickMcCarvel
After Grand Prix season, @MaxTAaron says he's re-worked his free skate. "We moved jumps around and jump passes. I have new music choices."
3:34 PM - 11 Dec 13

Oh yes, yes, yes. Thank goodness. Oh Max, you tried, and maybe you could have made Carmen work, but that choreo was terrible.

So major changes were in store when Max casually ;) mentioned in his interview during Sectionals that he was heading to see Lori Nichol the next day. :think:

Oh, no, no, no. And here I got my hopes up, but if Nichol is still in charge....

*

On a side note, it's interesting how people's perceptions go. In that article, Joshua is described as "almost 19", but Jason is described as "only 18" and, until corrected on Twitter, Nick also had described him as "the youngest of the contenders". Jason's birthday is Sunday, so he is much closer to 19 than Joshua is, and he is older than Joshua, who is the youngest of the "contenders". I wonder how that works in his mind to write that like? /curiouswriter
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
On a side note, it's interesting how people's perceptions go. In that article, Joshua is described as "almost 19", but Jason is described as "only 18" and, until corrected on Twitter, Nick also had described him as "the youngest of the contenders". Jason's birthday is Sunday, so he is much closer to 19 than Joshua is, and he is older than Joshua, who is the youngest of the "contenders". I wonder how that works in his mind to write that like? /curiouswriter

Joshua and Jason are both among the youngest among all the competitors at nationals, which has been the case since they debuted in seniors in 2011. This year, only Lukas Kaugars is younger.

Here's the ages (as of Nationals) for all the competitors (including first U.S. Nationals senior debut (if applicable) and best result at nationals)
Jeremy Abbott: 28 (6/5/1985) - 2007 (1st - 2009, 2010, 2012)
Daniel Raad: 26 (7/18/1987) - 2009 (2012 - 20th)
Douglas Razanno: 25 (10/22/1988) - 2008 (5th-2012)
Stephen Carriere: 24 (6/15/1989) - 2007 (3rd -2008)
Adam Rippon: 24 (11/11/1989) - 2009 (2nd -2012)
Sean Rabbitt: 23 (4/8/1990) - 2011 (19th -2013)
Grant Hochstein: 23 (7/16/1990) - 2010 (7th-2010)
Robert Przepioski: 23 (8/25/1990) - senior debut
Brandon Mroz: 23 (12/22/1990) - 2009 (2nd -2009)
Ross Miner: 22 (1/24/1991) -2011 - (W/D in 2010; 2nd-2013)
Scott Dyer: 22 (3/26/1991) - 2011 (10th -2012)
Richard Dornbush: 22 (8/27/1991) - 2010 (W/D in 2009; 2nd-2011)
Keegan Messing: 21 (1/23/1992) - 2010 (7th-2012)
Max Aaron: 21 (2/25/1992)- 2012 (1st- 2013)
Timothy Dolensky: 21 (07/18/1992) -senior debut (2nd in juniors in 2012)
Philip Warren: 20 (06/14/1993) 2013 (18th - 2013)
Jason Brown: 19 (12/15/1994) -2011 (8th - 2013)
Joshua Farris: 19 (1/6/1995) - 2011 (4th -2013)
Lukas Kaugars: 18 (4/27/1995) - senior debut (4th in juniors in 2013)
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Australia
Joshua and Jason are both among the youngest among all the competitors at nationals, which has been the case since they debuted in seniors in 2011. This year, only Lukas Kaugars is younger.

Yeah, that was just me with my fascination with perceptions rambling on a bit. (Also, yay! Lukas! My favourite new Senior!)

U.S. men’s figure skaters move on in Evan Lysacek’s absence

Includes quotes from Max Aaron and Adam Rippon.

Sigh. Here we are again. As though Lysacek was the God of American Skating or something. Yes, he had all of those medals; what everyone seems to have overlooked was that he was injured and hadn't skated in four years...
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
Sigh. Here we are again. As though Lysacek was the God of American Skating or something. Yes, he had all of those medals; what everyone seems to have overlooked was that he was injured and hadn't skated in four years...

The problem is the U.S. Men have been so inconsistent they haven't really been able enough to shine. Jeremy Abbott should really have been No. 1 the moment Evan left and he only achieved that once this quad and have actually been left off the team the other two years. Ross Miner is the only one among the U.S. men that have ranked in the Top 3 at all three nationals this quad, but his dismal performance at Worlds didn't really help his case nor does his poor performance at Skate Canada. Richard Dornbush looked promising with a top 10 finish at Worlds in 2011 but haven't made a Worlds team since. Adam Rippon also did not fare well in his sole Worlds appearance in 2012 (though he looks good now).

Max looked great at the end of the season but followed that with a subpar grand prix season. Jason made a positive impression at GP, but he's hasn't been around long enough to gain Evan-level reputation. Joshua was OK at Skate Canada, but unfortunately we just haven't seen as much of him as the others.

And obviously the fact that we weren't able to regain the 3 spots lost in 2011 also doesn't make the current men look too great.

Point is none of the U.S. men this quad have turned in a consistent track record that would draw attention away from Evan, despite the fact that Evan has not competed in several years.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Feb 27, 2012

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
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Is this video new? I just noticed it on the NBC site, and it has no date. Features American men Aaron, Miner, Lysacek.

Mastering the quad
One jump, four rotations, land it on a quarter inch blade of steel: "The Quad" is the gold standard in men's figure skating. Top Americans break down the jump.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/mastering-quad (3:09 in length)​

Sounds interesting but... sigh... "This content is currently unavailable." I'm guessing geoblocked? I don't suppose there's a tanscript of it anywhere?

The YouTube version of the NBC quad video now is available (and I hope that it is not geoblocked):
Mastering the Quad
Published on Dec 11, 2013
One jump, four rotations, land it on a quarter inch blade of steel: "The Quad" is the gold standard in men's figure skating. Evan Lysacek and friends break down the big jump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwnoUheLLZc&feature=c4-overview&list=UUqZQlzSHbVJrwrn5XvzrzcA (3:03 in length)​

.... I was reminded of this article that I read a while back:

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120320&content_id=27433896&vkey=ice_news

and really enjoyed. I must confess I find quads fascinating. :) ...

LRK, pls forgive me for forgetting to thank you earlier for posting the link to this article. I had missed it back when it originally published, and I learned a lot from my first time reading about what so many American men had to say about quads.
 
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