OK, I'll give you 13 on each of those (so still not the clearly more than required bullet point). McCorkell may spin for 16 revolutions, but she doesn't even start to try to get into position for the first couple revs. You can't count "1" until they've already gone around a full revolution in position.
Are spins being judged correctly?
- Thread starter Icey
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And this is a very good example of how undeveloped IJS is. Stuff like this should be much more clearly defined, with examples given, using photos and videos of skaters not competing any more. Because of such lack of detail, essentially everything goes, which doesn't create a level playing field for the skaters and puts judges in a difficult position.
Let's say that a judge notices a skater travelling on a spin. You want to deduct but you don't know how much. You might worry you were the only person who noticed it and you might worry that your mark will be way off what the referee gave and that it might put you outside of the corridor.
I've just been raging about the (J)GPF judging in the Ladies SP thread, copying (and expanding on) the spin specific comments here.
Travelling aside, my biggest spin judging issue at the moment is the judges giving 'automatic' +1s and +2s for a layback just because a biellmann was executed, regardless of the actual quality of the entire element. It makes me wish biellmanns were banned because the absolutely last thing I want to see is a skater straining to pull their leg up and then just about maintaining the rotation, whilst looking very awkward. There are few skaters capable of executing a biellmann with ease and flow, extending the position properly and maintaining the rotation speed, which would actually warrant positive GOE.
Another issue with spins is one that applies to judging in general but is especially visible on this element. In theory, the judges are supposed to use the whole range of GOE to reward quality or punish poor execution. -3 isn't reserved just for falls but it should also apply to elements which are very poorly executed or have numerous deductions (since deductions are cumulative).
I don't want it to sound like I am picking on a specific skater but since you need to give actual examples, I would point to Wagner. Her spins are quite weak and their quality of execution is below what you see from other highest level skaters. Yet, I don't see that reflected in the scores at all.
In the Ladies SP at the GPF, none of her positions in the flying sit was particularly well extended (the final one especially was quite poor) and the spin travelled throughout. Not just at one point. There was quite considerable travelling for most of the duration of the spin, IIRC. And what GOE did that element receive? +1s and +2s.
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She's in Layback position for 16; I didn't count the first revolutions in upright position.
The +2's were definitely undeserved, but I think +1 is fair? The traveling wasn't that bad. She had good speed and attained the positions quickly. Her final tuck position isn't good, but she utilizes the free arm position to improve it. The spin was quite good with the music, particularly the jump in the middle. That aspect is what pushes it into +1 territory for me.
I definitely agree about the Layback GOE's and I also agree that the Beillmann should be banned as a Layback feature (in terms of counting for extra points) in the SP. The rules need to count "free leg and free foot parallel to the ice and back well arched" as a difficult variation. That classic beautiful Layback position is difficult to achieve and doesn't receive credit. A shame! Another position which should count for a level feature is "both arms held behind and back well arched". That's another very pleasing position, relatively difficult, and is more of an actual layback position than the Beillmann. Although, with regards to the Beillmann position, I actually think it should be able to count twice as a level feature in programs if it is done on different feet within the same spin. That's a very difficult thing to accomplish and was Irina Slutskaya's trademark.
Back to Layback GOE, Wagner's should be getting a 0 with the quality she has shown on it this season. It's not quite as fast and well-controlled as it used to be and her free leg position isn't as good as it used to be. Her layback spin also doesn't go as well with the music in her programs this season, particularly the LP.
