Plushenko or Kovtun? | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Plushenko or Kovtun?

snowflake

I enjoy what I like
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
:eek:hwell: My main hope is that Russia(and other nation's teams with one spot in a discipline) choose a skater(s) that is able to skate 4 programs during olympics :thumbsup:
 

amber68

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Has either Plushenko or Kovtun said anything about maybe skating just the team event, then bowing out? Or is it just us?

Has any athlete complained about skating four times in two weeks? Or is the universal attitude among the skaters, "Oh boy, more medals, more medals!"


Why should any athlete complain about skating four times in two weeks when it used to be the norm to skate three times in one week. As I am sure you remember, in 6.0 system all the skaters had to do a qualifying round + SP + FP.
Moreover, remember the format of the GPF-s between 2000-2003: SP, FP1 and the top two had to present a different FP2 in the Super Final! All in one week.
Actually, Plushenko is on of the very few active skaters who competed under these formats and won but, of course he was much younger.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Why should any athlete complain about skating four times in two weeks when it used to be the norm to skate three times in one week. As I am sure you remember, in 6.0 system all the skaters had to do a qualifying round + SP + FP.
Moreover, remember the format of the GPF-s between 2000-2003: SP, FP1 and the top two had to present a different FP2 in the Super Final! All in one week.
Actually, Plushenko is on of the very few active skaters who competed under these formats and won but, of course he was much younger.

He did the same at Euros 2012 - qualifying round + SP & FP. And mentioned that it was like it used to be, and he viewed the qualifying round positively - as an extra run through. (Or words to that effect.)
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Why should any athlete complain about skating four times in two weeks when it used to be the norm to skate three times in one week. As I am sure you remember, in 6.0 system all the skaters had to do a qualifying round + SP + FP.
Moreover, remember the format of the GPF-s between 2000-2003: SP, FP1 and the top two had to present a different FP2 in the Super Final! All in one week.
Oh, for several reasons:
1. In some disciplines, it's not four events in two weeks, it's four events within days of each other: the team event starts on February 6, and the pairs free skate takes place six days later. The men's free skate is eight days after the team SPs.
2. In the individual events, some skaters will have to face off against competitors who didn't have to expend any energy and effort on the team event.
3. There is a big difference between the stress and preparation for the Olympics and a GPF. The Olympics, AFAIK, never used the QR format.
4. For some skaters, there is no real reward in doing the team competition, since they have zero chances of a medal there. But it could have an adverse effect on their chances in the individual events.
5. I think one could make the argument that IJS programs are more physically demanding than 6.0 ones.
6. There are a lot of skaters who can compete but do so with injuries, and this schedule could be too much for their bodies to take. Leaving aside Plushenko, who is less than a year removed from major back surgery, I don't want to see Pang/Tong in the team event - considering their physical condition, I would rather they focus on the pairs event, where they have a chance at a medal.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ I don't see it that way at all, Buttercup. Contrary to popular believe, figure skaters are not wussies and wimps. They came to skate; let them skate. Athletes in other sports go, go, go, go, go. Skaters can do the same.

I hope Pang and Ting burn up the ice in the short program of the team event, skating so well that China makes the finals. Then I hope they skate like crazy in the long program. Then I hope they give it their all in the individual six days later. Athletes in other sports can only wish that they got six days of rest between heats.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I wish the team event were simplified. e.g. Of the top 10 qualifying countries in the team event, for each discipline you are allowed up to 2 entries (even if you only have 1 entry in individual disciplines), with the option to have skaters/couples skate in both the short and free.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
^ I don't see it that way at all, Buttercup. Contrary to popular believe, figure skaters are not wussies and wimps. They came to skate; let them skate. Athletes in other sports go, go, go, go, go. Skaters can do the same.

I hope Pang and Ting burn up the ice in the short program of the team event, skating so well that China makes the finals. Then I hope they skate like crazy in the long program. Then I hope they give it their all in the individual six days later. Athletes in other sports can only wish that they got six days of rest between heats.
I have concerns about P/T competing at all considering their medical issues, and I would much rather they focus on the event where they have a realistic shot at a medal. I hope skaters manage their Olympic commitments wisely and don't put too much stress on their bodies. Skating takes a serious toll on the body and with so many veteran competitors still around, I'd rather not have skaters put their long-term health at risk. It's really unfortunate that this is being characterized by anyone as skaters being wusses, wimps or unsportsmanlike. I hesitate to use "won't somebody think of the children", but I do think it sends a poor message when elite athletes are encouraged to overdo it, whether it's in skating, or NFL players who played after concussions, or anything in between.

I wish the team event were simplified. e.g. Of the top 10 qualifying countries in the team event, for each discipline you are allowed up to 2 entries (even if you only have 1 entry in individual disciplines), with the option to have skaters/couples skate in both the short and free.
We are finally in agreement! This is exactly how I would handle the team event. Since qualifying for the team event is not dependent on the same competitions as the individual events, it makes sense for the spots for this event to be handled differently.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
... Piseev:
http://sochi2014.rsport.ru/sochi2014_figure/20131119/702142252.html
translated by Google

Question about extra skater at the Olympics fundamentally resolved - Piseev
MOSCOW, November 19 - R-Sport. The possibility of replacing the Russian sculler after team tournament at the Winter Olympics in Sochi fundamentally resolved , said CEO of the Federation of figure skating in Russia ( FFKKR ) Valentin Piseyev .

In the men's figure skating at the Olympic Games in Sochi, Russia will present only one participant . Under the current regulations in the team Olympic competitions should act the same skater , which is stated in the statement .

" Information such is that the International Skating Union (ISU) appealed to the IOC asking that there were spare athletes - Piseyev said at a news conference at RIA Novosti. - We are informed that the issue has been resolved . Official paper at the moment we have but we are confident that it will . "

" Thus, we can put the team competition after spare skaters in individual tournament ," - said General Director FFKKR .

Thx, Plushyfan. Pls keep us posted.

Is the idea here that the ISU and/or IOC is/are changing the rules of the Olympic team event so that countries that qualified only one entry in a discipline will be allowed to have a different entry in the team event for the discipline??
Such a change potentially could affect quite a few countries. (Not saying that all the countries below will qualify for the team event. Canada and the USA will take up two of the slots.)

Countries that have qualified entries in all four disciplines, but only one in the disciplines indicated below:
- China (one man, one dance couple)
- France (one lady)
- Germany (one lady, one man)
- Italy (one man)
- Russia (one man)
- Ukraine (one entry in each of the four disciplines)​

Countries that have qualified entries in three disciplines:
- Japan (one dance couple)
- Australia (one lady, one man, one dance couple)
- Estonia (one lady, one man, one pair)
- Great Britain (one lady, one pair, one dance couple)​

Wonder whether the following restriction would remain in effect from the 12-page ISU Qualification Sytem PDF.
If applicable, each NOC may benefit of this Additional Athletes Quota for only one discipline of the Figure Skating Team Event.
http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=4263
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Thx, Plushyfan. Pls keep us posted.

Is the idea here that the ISU and/or IOC is/are changing the rules of the Olympic team event so that countries that qualified only one entry in a discipline will be allowed to have a different entry in the team event for the discipline??
Such a change potentially could affect quite a few countries. (Not saying that all the countries below will qualify for the team event. Canada and the USA will take up two of the slots.)

Countries that have qualified entries in all four disciplines, but only one in the disciplines indicated below:
- China (one man, one dance couple)
- France (one lady)
- Germany (one lady, one man)
- Italy (one man)
- Russia (one man)
- Ukraine (one entry in each of the four disciplines)​

Countries that have qualified entries in three disciplines:
- Japan (one dance couple)
- Australia (one lady, one man, one dance couple)
- Estonia (one lady, one man, one pair)
- Great Britain (one lady, one pair, one dance couple)​

Wonder whether the following restriction would remain in effect from the 12-page ISU Qualification Sytem PDF.
If applicable, each NOC may benefit of this Additional Athletes Quota for only one discipline of the Figure Skating Team Event.
http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=4263

Probably you are right, but I don't know the details , plus I didn't read any news on it in the Russian media.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
We are finally in agreement! This is exactly how I would handle the team event. Since qualifying for the team event is not dependent on the same competitions as the individual events, it makes sense for the spots for this event to be handled differently.

Well it defies the concept of a "team" if certain countries have restrictions as to who they choose.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
IIRC the current format for the Olympic team event is not the original one that was presented by the ISU four years ago. The IOC insisted on some changes. I have forgotten the exact details, but one thing that the IOC required was that the team event would not increase the total number of athletes that they would have to house and feed. The current rules are very clear that alternate athletes are not to be given the key to the Olympic village, although in some circumstances they can sneak in as day trippers for practice.

If the event is a rousing success -- which I believe it will be, especially in the U.S. television market -- then maybe in subsequent years they will be allowed to cast the teams differently.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Well, here's two potential spanners in the works for the RuFed's plot to have it as Kovtun...

Voronov and Gachinski just 1-2'd Golden Spin in Zagreb.

And they didn't do it lamely either - both landed two clean quads in their FS, Artur did two triple Axels (one in boss combination - 3A-2T-2Lo), Sergei fell off his second but got credit for both, both of them got a lot of level 3s and 4s, Artur only popped one jump (3Lz to 2Lz), both of them raked in the positive GOE.

If Gachinski and Voronov are coming back into form just in time for Russian Nationals, this could get very, very interesting...
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Well, here's two potential spanners in the works for the RuFed's plot to have it as Kovtun...

Voronov and Gachinski just 1-2'd Golden Spin in Zagreb.

And they didn't do it lamely either - both landed two clean quads in their FS, Artur did two triple Axels (one in boss combination - 3A-2T-2Lo), Sergei fell off his second but got credit for both, both of them got a lot of level 3s and 4s, Artur only popped one jump (3Lz to 2Lz), both of them raked in the positive GOE.

If Gachinski and Voronov are coming back into form just in time for Russian Nationals, this could get very, very interesting...

stop hyping Gachinski he isn't making the Olympics, not going to happen
and if these two bomb, they have nothing else as they have relatively poor PCS
Gachinski is slow as a sloth and judges are giving him B skater PCS Marks
Vornov has even poorer PCS than Menshov
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I am all for more skating :) But I do thing the olympic team title is really based upon the format used. I mean the results could change. Ie. they are allowing teams to compete in the team title though that nation may not hav qualified to skate at the olympics in certain events. Ordinal based placements versus points for placements versus overall points (skating scores) all could realistically have very different podium results. For example if your nation made the finals but didn't have one entry you would have a chance with a 5th place in that event. But if it was a total points can you imagine a zero to say a weak lady scoring say90 pts in the lp and sp. Or what if the scores were really close/tight ie 1 point between first and fourth - you could get very difficult results. BUt the rules for the olymics are the rules so who does htis favour the most I wonder? Maybe Japan if they get two firsts in singles.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
If Plushenko said he could, it will definitely be Plushenko. Maxim Kovtun reminds me of young Jeremy Abbott, but a lot more athletic. He is not only a strong jumper but also has rich artistic potential, richer than Plushenko at teenage years I have to say. Looking forward to seeing more of Kovtun's performances in the future!

Hm. Plushy received his first perfect presentation mark , at NHK Trophy 1998. He was 16, thus he was the youngest male skater ever who received it. When he was 18 y.o. like Kovtun is now, he had 21 6.0s for his presentations. He received 12 6.0s in international competitions.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
who does htis favour the most I wonder? Maybe Japan if they get two firsts in singles.

I think the rules favor a team like Canada whose weakest link is still pretty good.

For instance, Japan could get 1st in ladies, 1st in men, 8th in dance, 8th in pairs in the SP, then 1st, 1st, 5th, 5th, for a total of 58 points.

Canada might get 6th in ladies, 2nd in men, 2nd in dance, 3rd in pairs in the SP, then 5th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, for a total of 64 points.

This is pretty much a best case scenario for Japan and a worst case scenario for Canada, but Canada wins handily even so.

I think the reason they went with placements instead of CoP points is that otherwise the men's event would dominate the other three. It would probably be better to use factored placements to mitigate the effect of spoilers like Savchenko and Szolkowy who could separate the leader board in the short without having a chance to make the finals themselves.
 
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