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If you had seen his all programs in the past, then you know he has one of the best twiizzles among the men.
Plushenko or Kovtun?
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If you had seen his all programs in the past, then you know he has one of the best twiizzles among the men.
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Thank wallylutz for your analysis, You surely have watched his lp more than me by now. There is 4 seconds of airplane arms which I have no idea why that's any wrong for skating and concerning the two foot skating which I have no objection with your comment, how about we tear apart any program of any GP skater who is not Chan or Daisuke? I do not like how Plushenko is singled out now or 4 years ago and I have yet to see a hip thrust on this program, sth people repeat I don't know why, you d think Plush would be working at Moulin rouge..
It's "firmly debunked as false" your statement that he can't skate on one foot. Your biased hate driven agenda collapsed when you were directed back to your own video in which you can only see what you hate!
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You are sarcastic and do not want to understand what I said. He has no time to make perfect programs, perfect elements, and so on. Since Riga he has almost two month to Rus Nat, to Euros more than two months.. When you consider that in 2002 they made a completely new program during this time, and won silver with it, then it's not hopeless. It is the skeleton program, they need to correct his mistakes, plus transitions and even a quad. He learn choreography very quickly, he is known about it. I just ask for him some patience...
Look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gyjnsLeIw this is a gala program.. the choreographer was Zhulin
and Camerlengo's program very good angle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIwHnbQbYnY he had broken blade
With all due respect, I think you are taking this personally for no good reason. Tear apart is such a strongly worded expression, I don't know if this how you intended it to come out - on my part, there was no such intention. Plushenko's current program has some fairly obvious issues, even plushyfan admitted as much but instead blamed it on lack of training time. Regardless of the reason(s), the issues are there and many people want to know where Plushenko stands, vis-à-vis the other elite male skaters.
Now, if you want to compare it to some skaters besides Takahashi or Chan, that's fine with me because there are many other men whose in-between are great other than these two. Here are some examples :
Nobunari Oda : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQlWGcpAkFo
Jeremy Abbott : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6wRcJnuL0Q
Jason Brown : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_X_F8zJ8k8
Do you feel it's fair if Plushenko gets a higher PCS than any of these 3 above mentioned skaters when their performance level is more or less the same? If we were to believe that Mathman is right, then chances are, Plushenko will beat all 3 of them in terms of PCS by quite a bit, how do you justify that?
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- Jun 21, 2003
Predicting is not justifying. 
But I will revise my prediction of Plushenko's PCS to 82.80, the same as he got in 2010. (It would have been a tad higher except that three judges read the Joe Inman memo and gave him 6's for transitions.)
We have to remember that it's the marks of the judges that count, not analyses posted on the Internet.
But I will revise my prediction of Plushenko's PCS to 82.80, the same as he got in 2010. (It would have been a tad higher except that three judges read the Joe Inman memo and gave him 6's for transitions.)We have to remember that it's the marks of the judges that count, not analyses posted on the Internet.
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- Jun 3, 2008
^You cannot substitute for some part, if Kovtun replaces Evgeni in team event that means he will have to skate the individuals too.
But I m sorry you seem to focus on Plushenko's unfair marks, while a book can be written for all the iffy judgements that have happened during the last 4 years in pcs and in GOE. Yes Plushenko's program in Volvo cannot be getting same pcs marks of the three programs above but I cannot say anything about the pcs of Plushenko in Sochi because he has not skated the program yet, are the pcs a mark that you carry along from one competition to another and represent your ideal skate? It seems this way, Abott for example deserves great pcs when he skates like Nationals 2010, but in Vancouver he wasnt that great. So how can one say Plushenko wont deserve the marks for a skate that hasnt happened yet? And I suddently dont see him getting 70s, sorry.
Also I gave up on fair marks since Kozuka is not clearly getting the pcs he deserves after so many years in skating. Plushenko's overmarkign can make up for all my frustration on Kozuka not getting the ones he deserves.
Ididnt want to come out as strong then, maybe breaking down was more suitable. I certainly didnt take anything personally, I really dont care that much for the outcome, I will be really happy to see Plush in Sochi and thats about all, if he is not even there I ll still be in Olympic Games with lots of skaters to cheer for!
But I m sorry you seem to focus on Plushenko's unfair marks, while a book can be written for all the iffy judgements that have happened during the last 4 years in pcs and in GOE. Yes Plushenko's program in Volvo cannot be getting same pcs marks of the three programs above but I cannot say anything about the pcs of Plushenko in Sochi because he has not skated the program yet, are the pcs a mark that you carry along from one competition to another and represent your ideal skate? It seems this way, Abott for example deserves great pcs when he skates like Nationals 2010, but in Vancouver he wasnt that great. So how can one say Plushenko wont deserve the marks for a skate that hasnt happened yet? And I suddently dont see him getting 70s, sorry. Also I gave up on fair marks since Kozuka is not clearly getting the pcs he deserves after so many years in skating. Plushenko's overmarkign can make up for all my frustration on Kozuka not getting the ones he deserves.
Predicting is not justifying.
We have to remember that it's the marks of the judges that count, not analyses posted on the Internet.
He wishes 6 was the lowest! Try 5.00!! Him and the 24th place fisher got that!
Only because Russia has one spot only for Men's. Canada for example, can have Kevin Reynolds skate the SP while Patrick Chan takes the FS.
Ididnt want to come out as strong then, maybe breaking down was more suitable. I certainly didnt take anything personally, I really dont care that much for the outcome, I will be really happy to see Plush in Sochi and thats about all, if he is not even there I ll still be in Olympic Games with lots of skaters to cheer for!
Cool!
I haven't been part of any discussion re: Plushenko for a good 10 months. In any event, many people believe Plushenko has been seriously overmarked in PCS with good reasons for quite some time, I am far from alone. However, I understand why my comments can come across as somewhat sensitive to some people. Keep in mind, my opinion is just that - my $0.02, nothing more. Mathman said it right and I quote :
Mathman said:
I think you misunderstood as I have made it very clear my assessment is only pertinent at this point & time, it doesn't mean he cannot improve from this point forward. And the link to other skaters' programs are far from perfect, they just happen to be from the most recent GP events. In any event, PCS in the 70's is not bad. Even Hanyu got PCS in the 70s this season in one competition. I can say that if Plushenko up his performance level, get more speed, skate less cautiously and up his ante, my marks for him will have no where to go but up.
Also I gave up on fair marks since Kozuka is not clearly getting the pcs he deserves after so many years in skating. Plushenko's overmarkign can make up for all my frustration on Kozuka not getting the ones he deserves.
To be fair, Kozuka has his issues as well. There is a reason why his PCS is below even that of Jason Brown. Everyone has something to work on, that includes Patrick Chan, it's just some have more work to do than others. Even if we take Chan's record setting TEB performance, I can still pick out several things that I wish to see him work on & improve. The fact is Chan is still getting many 1s for GOE and those 1s can become at least 2. It's just me, I am nitpicky but only because I wish to see the skaters better themselves, nothing more.
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- Jan 25, 2013
You can substitute if a skater is injured, which is what many suspect the Russian federation will orchestrate... as in Kovtun or Plushenko skates in the team event, and after that event is over, they cite "injury" allowing the other one to compete in the individual event.
The Doctors revision of his diagnosis of plushenko would lead to plushenko losing his eligibility so whatever kovtun faked would probably have to keep him out of worlds too! It would raise too many questions and it's totally doubtful kovtun and tarasova would be days or hours away from doing the individual event and then be like "time for plushenko!" doubt it.
The "advantage" is if Russian Fed wants Plushenko to focus solely on the individual event, they could use another skater for the Team event and then plug Plushenko into the competition after the Team event because Kovtun or someone else is "suddenly injured". Some have speculated that Plushenko's body simply won't allow him to perform at a high level in such back to back fashion. Plus, it would allow Kovtun to officially take part in the Sochi Olympics even though he won't be skating in the individual event, thus lessen any criticism that Plushenko monopolized other Russian men's opportunity to take part at the Olympics.
Worlds is a good 1.5 months after the Olympics' Men FS event - enough time to recover from a minor injury. Skaters can be injured during a competition and forced to withdraw, it happens all the time. Sure, there will be doubts but when somebody withdraws for medical reasons, the ISU has no choice but accept it at face value, similar to how Plushenko injured himself during Euro 2013 SP even though many people didn't understand how the injury occur or was it a pre-existing condition.
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Plushenko enters the team event and gets a 4th medal. Kovtun competes in the individual event and places wherever he happens to place. Or Kovtun enters the team event and gets a medal, says he's "injured", and Plushenko comes in and gets to skate in front of the home crowd. Either way, it ensures Plushenko and Kovtun get to skate even though Russia has only 1 men's entry. That is the advantage.
This is of course speculation. One would hope Russia acts honourably and doesn't orchestrate a stunt like this. However, we are talking about the Russian fed here.
They might even want to rest up Plushenko for the individual event and throw Kovtun in there; or they might want to ensure Plushenko wins a medal and put him in the team event and cite injury to allow Kovtun to compete (and allow Plushenko to end his career on a high note instead of risk being well off the podium in the men's event).
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- Jun 21, 2003
? Why is it an advantage to have your best guy skate once and your second best guy skate once, instead of your best guy skating twice? The point is to win as many medals as possible, not to spread the love.
Canada, for instance, will ride Chan hard and put him away wet. Chan in team SP, Chan in team LP, Chan in individual. Two gold medals for Canada!
Canada, for instance, will ride Chan hard and put him away wet. Chan in team SP, Chan in team LP, Chan in individual. Two gold medals for Canada!
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This! Plus there is too much Russian federation caring about plushenko personal story and not what's best for Russia in Sochi. If kovtun is at COr sp level at Russ nats or euros he's there in Sochi. Or plushenko is there for both. Kovtun is absolutely not going to play along with leaving the individual event ! Ever! He's got tarasova to prevent the Russian fed from punishing him.
Chan himself doesn't mind doing the Team Event followed by the Individual Event. Many other skaters don't feel this way. In the case of Plushenko, it may be dangerous to make him compete 4 times in 6 days given the state of his health, not to mention fatigue and stamina issue. The last thing you want is to see him getting injured completing a program, therefore, forfeiting either the points in Men's category completely or forced to withdraw during the individual event, which will become a sad way to end your career on home ice. Other skaters simply excel in SP vs. FS or vice versa. For example, Hanyu may be an excellent choice for Japan in SP but in FS, well, not so much. He has not even scored higher than 82 at any ISU event this year for PCS during FS. However, another Japanese man may be more suitable. Therefore, using Chan is a bad example because few skaters are as dominant as he is, which makes sense that he does both segments. Take Pairs for example, it is so close to the individual events that many top pairs, especially the Germans are reticent about participating. But if they don't take part, it may look bad. I wouldn't be surprised if Germany will use S/S for SP only because Germany doesn't have much of a shot at medals anyway but used their #2 Pair for FS, if they make it into the top 5. On the other hand, Canada will likely split their Pairs Team event equally between its top 2 pairs given that they are pretty even and you don't want either of them to be too tired for the individual event right after.
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- Feb 27, 2012
Abusing the rules would be a sad way to end your career on home ice.
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