Hyped too soon? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Hyped too soon?

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
I think there are a couple of levels of hype. If you hype a junior who has yet to perform in the senior level, that is premature. If you hype some child who's years away from competing, that is another level of serious overhype. I'm thinking of Nathan, the young Asian-American boy who was a very big thing a couple of years ago.

But if a skater has been in the senior level for a couple of years and actually accomplishes a national championship/nearly medals/wins a short program (Mirai), or makes the Grand Prix Finale (Caroline), I think the attention is warranted. Something went very wrong with those skaters who had so much potential.

Another thing is bothering me. Everyone is talking about these girls going through puberty at 16 or 17 and having a growth spurt, etc. As a teacher with many years teaching in high schools, I can tell you that it is not that easy to tell the female seniors from the freshmen (with boys, it's a different story, of course). There is not usually any great growth spurt in the later teen years. Maybe just an inch or two is enough to throw everything off jumpwise, I don't know, but if these girls are really going through puberty at 17 years old, that is pretty unusual.
 

coppertop1

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
I think there are a couple of levels of hype. If you hype a junior who has yet to perform in the senior level, that is premature. If you hype some child who's years away from competing, that is another level of serious overhype. I'm thinking of Nathan, the young Asian-American boy who was a very big thing a couple of years ago.

Emanuel Sandhu comes to mind, he was being called the Next One before he even competed in the Senior ranks. Hyping someone who hasn't even competed? Wow, that's pretty ridiculous.

But if a skater has been in the senior level for a couple of years and actually accomplishes a national championship/nearly medals/wins a short program (Mirai), or makes the Grand Prix Finale (Caroline), I think the attention is warranted. Something went very wrong with those skaters who had so much potential.

Point. They looked poised for great things. I know Mirai had a growth spurt and I thought someone commented on here she had another one. Excitement and attention is one thing, declaring them the future when they barely start is another. There was good reason to be excited about them, what went wrong? With Zhang, I think her technique lets her down. With Mirai, she seems to have lost momentum.

Another thing is bothering me. Everyone is talking about these girls going through puberty at 16 or 17 and having a growth spurt, etc. As a teacher with many years teaching in high schools, I can tell you that it is not that easy to tell the female seniors from the freshmen (with boys, it's a different story, of course). There is not usually any great growth spurt in the later teen years. Maybe just an inch or two is enough to throw everything off jumpwise, I don't know, but if these girls are really going through puberty at 17 years old, that is pretty unusual.

Yeah, that would be late to hit puberty. It looks to me like Lipnitskaia and Radionova have not yet hit puberty. Kwan had her growthspurt and body changes at 15/16. So did Cynthia Phaneuf and that's what threw her off that and injuries. Of course, looks are decieving, Tara Lipinski didn't look 15.
 

carriecmu0503

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
While I get what all these age restrictions are trying to do (and the ISU will raise the age limit to 15 at July first for the Grand Prix series), I can't help but wonder if they're hindering more than helping. If someone shows they can compete with the best in the world at 14 they should be allowed to, it's valuable experience. Though I don't think she classifies as hyped too soon, I think of Mao Asada in 2005-06, who could have easily won a medal, maybe even gold, in Torino, and when she was old enough to go to the Olympics in 2009-10, she was labouring under the pressure of the expectations. I wish they didn't close the loophole that if you won a medal at the World Juniors, you were eligible for Worlds

I disagree. Like Frank Carroll said, those jumps are a lot easier when you have the body of a little girl. I much prefer to have actual ladies in the senior division. Just because Elena Radionova has great jumps at 14 doesn't mean she is Olympic quality. Let her mature a little more in juniors. I think the rash of little girl champions did nothing to help the sport's popularity, as little girls aren't relatable for the general public.
 

caseyl23

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
I think there are a couple of levels of hype. If you hype a junior who has yet to perform in the senior level, that is premature. If you hype some child who's years away from competing, that is another level of serious overhype. I'm thinking of Nathan, the young Asian-American boy who was a very big thing a couple of years ago.

If you're talking about Nathan Chen, which it sounds like you are, I'll agree the early hype was a little too much, but he is still doing very well for himself. Last year, he won a Junior Grand Prix event and finished third at Nationals as a junior. This year, he's won both his Junior Grand Prix events. It still might be too early to hype him, but his results at the lower levels still suggest he has promise if he survives puberty and doesn't get hurt.
 

Pepe Nero

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
What I am against are the need to disregard them completely when they fail to deliver. Young people deserve the space to learn from their mistakes, make recovery, have room for improvement in their artistry and skating skills without being labelled xxx. That is why I think skaters like Julia, Gracie, Liza should deserve several chances to prove themselves without being bashed or negativity when they are obviously trying (although sometimes failing but surely it is expected as part of the natural learning/growing process?).

Yes!

This is a pet peeve of mine in skating, particularly Ladies. Hyping any female skater pre-puberty, or even pre-end of puberty, is a fool's errand. Plus, it isn't fair to the skaters. A formerly stick figure 13-year-old (and I was one) who could easily rotate triple jumps (I wasn't one), should not have to hear from the time that her body develops until the time she quits skating that she never lived up to her potential. Nor should she have to try to artificially keep her 13-year-old body in order to meet some standard set for her before a natural (and normal and healthy) growing process occurred. It's like remarking to 55 year old women that they can't have children anymore and then endlessly debating what happened. No kidding, a stage of life has passed. Ain't no one going to SAFELY do anything about it.

No hype until the body changes is a good rule of thumb. I refuse to even have an opinion of a skater before that time.

This is a really good post.

Reading through this thread, it occurred to me that almost everyone is talking about female figure skaters. There is sometimes "hype" about some male junior figure skaters, like Nathan Chen. And I suppose occasionally we see some unsustainable early success in pairs and ice dance, such as in Sui/Han and the Shibutanis. But overwhelmingly, the hype is for pre-pubescent female figure skaters.

I am not prepared to theorize about what this says for contemporary global culture... (But I suspect it is not good. Someone should write a dissertation.)

Most of these hyped teenage girls stumble after one season at the senior level, if they make it that far. Before long, anonymous internet commentators on sites such as GoldenSkate are telling them to retire by the time they turn 19. If they have the fortitude to persist until 24, 25, 26 years old, the chorus becomes overwhelming. But only for the women. In other words, one can't speak about the topic of this thread without acknowledging everyday, commonplace gender biases.
 

coppertop1

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
I think one reason why teenage girls get more attention than say, teenage boys, is because of differences in physiology. Women are more flexible, lighter and more agile, men are about raw power and strength. A girl is at her most flexible as a teenager, whereas a man doesn't develop that raw power or strength until adulthood. So when a woman's body changes and her centre of balance changes and she has to re-adjust it appears as though she's failing, and people become impatient. Just look at the comments about Liza who is only 16 and some already think she's yesterday's news compared to her younger (and not that much younger) teammates. That can't help. It's simply a case of re-adjusting, once they adjust, they'll probably be back. Michelle Kwan adjusted and was back even better, Slutskaya was discounted but came back.

Men don't develop the strength in their core and arms until they are adults. Look at gymnastics, most women gymnasts are teenagers, the average teenage gymnast is between 16-18. The average male gymnast is in their 20s.

Skating fans just need to remember skaters are human, and these young teenage stars are just that, teenagers. They're bodies are changing, and if their bodies haven't changed, they will. They will struggle along the way. They will falter. Name me one skater who hasn't gone through a rough period.

If a skater has a rough year, that's life. I won't dismiss them for it. I get far more frustrated with a skater who is always inconsistent, like Sandhu or Nicole Bobek, far more than a skater who is going through an adjustment period from puberty.
 

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Glad to hear it about Nathan Chen. IIRC, he had bone pain last year and wasn't up to his usual standard. I remember him standing next to the female junior champion (Gracie) and she towered over him! He was so cute. Hope he stays strong.
 

coppertop1

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Glad to hear it about Nathan Chen. IIRC, he had bone pain last year and wasn't up to his usual standard. I remember him standing next to the female junior champion (Gracie) and she towered over him! He was so cute. Hope he stays strong.

In Canada, there's Nam Nguyen, who sounds a bit like Nathan. He's only 15 and turned senior when he was 13. He definitely has talent, and time to develop it. I remember him charming everyone in 2010 when he was only 11, at the Olympic Gala.
 

spikydurian

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Pepe Nero said:
Reading through this thread, it occurred to me that almost everyone is talking about female figure skaters.
Not surprising. Successful female skaters seem to attract more attention than male or pairs skaters. Maybe it's the glamour thing?
 

Rachmaninoff

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Female figure skating has always been more popular than male, at least in North America, but I think another reason they're the target of so much hype has to do with their youth, also. Many of them are competitive internationally at young ages, and that does make them media darlings and fan favourites a lot of the time. Would also be why Nathan Chen is the name people think of when you think of hyped male skaters.
 

A.H.Black

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Glad to hear it about Nathan Chen. IIRC, he had bone pain last year and wasn't up to his usual standard. I remember him standing next to the female junior champion (Gracie) and she towered over him! He was so cute. Hope he stays strong.

Nathan is going through his growing phase right now. This is the first year I have been able to see measurable growth. I think he is still dealing with Osgood-Schlatter's disease and that is the reason he doesn't have the 3 axel this year (he did land 3 axels in his jgp last year.) The Osgood-Schlatter's will, hopefully, ease as he comes to his full growth. If looking at his brothers is any indication, he still has a ways to go - although they are not an especially tall family.

I first saw Nathan skate in 2002 when he was a very little boy. At the time I posted something about seeing a child who could do a very nice spiral. I have always thought Nathan's skating has been very well managed. He has participated in many activities over the years, but skating seems to have always been his real love. He stayed novice for 2 years - winning both years. This will be his 3rd year as a junior - winning the first year, third last year. I expect to see him try the senior level for the first time next year. Then we will see if this life-long effort will really begin to pay off. I don't want to see Nathan hyped too much either, but I am watching him carefully.
 

coppertop1

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
I think Poodlepal is right that it is natural too hype a skater who shows an incredible amount of talent at a young age. I do think we need to remember that these skaters are young, they're bodies are maturing, they will need to adjust to the changes and that means they may lose their jumps for a while, we don't need to give up on them. I also don't like it when people make comments about a female skater's weight or body type, things like "She doesn't have the right body for skating". That's why girls develop anorexia. Not everyone needs to look like Tara Lipinski, some skaters have a more athletic build and that's fine.
 
Top