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Thread: Unusually good or bad performances, and reasons given

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Honestly, Sasha's LP in Torino wasn't much worse that what she normally put out. She had at least one major mistake in virtually every LP she ever skated, and there she had two. She may have been injured but I don't think it impacted whether she would have made the errors she made, particularly when she nailed everything late in her program.
    I do think she was injured, one of her legs is wrapped. However, I agree it wasn't worse than usual, she never skated a clean LP, she did crack when in the lead, but she fought back. It's hard to say if the injuries affected her because her performance was still par for the course.

    Oh, there's Alexei Yagudin in 1998 Olympics, he had the Nagano flu.

  2. #17
    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
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    Sasha Cohen's coach was mad at her performance in Paris because she stayed up late making cookies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johar View Post
    Sasha Cohen's coach was mad at her performance in Paris because she stayed up late making cookies.
    When was this? When did Sasha compete in Paris?

  4. #19
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coppertop1 View Post
    Alyssa had a torn labium at the 2012 Worlds
    LOL. I didn't know that, but I knew she had a torn labrum at those Worlds!!!! haha

    I was so disappointed with Johnny Weir in 2006, missing the bus, not feeling his aura, and every other excuse he made. Also Bobek was supposedly injured at the Olympics, and Kwiatkowski was told to be available, but Bobek went and had the worst showing ever for an American woman at the Olympics.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post

    I was so disappointed with Johnny Weir in 2006, missing the bus, not feeling his aura, and every other excuse he made. Also Bobek was supposedly injured at the Olympics, and Kwiatkowski was told to be available, but Bobek went and had the worst showing ever for an American woman at the Olympics.
    In many ways Johnny Weir is like the American version of Emanuel Sandhu: Artistic, talent to spare, but notoriously inconsistent. Sandhu also has excuses, not being chosen for the Olympics in 1998 is the main one.

    No one withdraws from the Olympics if they think they can compete. They work their lives for it. Nicole incredibly talent but was her own worst enemy. How long was she injured for? Since Tonia was on stand by, sounds like before the Olympics. Michelle Kwan did the right thing in 2006, rather than skate well below her standard, she realized she couldn't and bowed out in time for Emily Hughes compete.

  6. #21
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Weir and Sandhu have their similarities. But Sandhu wasn't as technically sound, and I don't think had the secure edging that Weir had. I can understand Sandhu being upset about 98, but he carried that for far too long. He should have been happy with his performance at his first senior Nationals and gone on from there. Weir was frustrating because he did not skate "smart". It seemed he was always leaving a jumping pass on the table, not doing a 3 jump combo, not maximizing his spins, etc.

    Bobek injured herself right before or during her Nationals exhibition IIRC. She was off the ice for too long and couldn't regain her fitness. She was always crash-training and it appeared crash-dieting, so once she backed off her training the weight started coming back on. She was noticeably heavier in Nagano than in Philly. I suppose I wouldn't have expected her to give up her place on the team, but it was pretty sad how the Campbell's soup girls were touted for a possible sweep and Bobek ended up in like 18th place. Sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    Weir and Sandhu have their similarities. But Sandhu wasn't as technically sound, and I don't think had the secure edging that Weir had. I can understand Sandhu being upset about 98, but he carried that for far too long. He should have been happy with his performance at his first senior Nationals and gone on from there. Weir was frustrating because he did not skate "smart". It seemed he was always leaving a jumping pass on the table, not doing a 3 jump combo, not maximizing his spins, etc.
    I totally agree about Sandhu keeping that anger far too long. I don't blame him one bit for being angry at that time, but as you said he should be happy with how he did at his first senior's and focused on Worlds. To keep the anger in for as long as he did and blame 98 on most of his failures is ridiculous. Dude, it was eight years ago. Get over it. I think we should have sent the third skater, no matter who it was. Canada had three berths and we wasted it. Life goes on, and it doesn't do himself any favours when he held onto it. His artistic temperament is what made him so inconsistent. It was really frustrating to watch him wow everyone one day then tank the next. I remember when he was 16th in 2007, I told my Mom and she just looked at me and said "You aren't serious?" I'm like yeah, I am. IMO, he needed a good helping of tough love. I wonder what went through Joanne McLeod's head watching him.

    Weir was wonderful to watch, but yeah, the mental aspect of the sport was his problem, he wasn't focused. When he was on, he was brilliant. Always entertaining, though

    Bobek injured herself right before or during her Nationals exhibition IIRC. She was off the ice for too long and couldn't regain her fitness. She was always crash-training and it appeared crash-dieting, so once she backed off her training the weight started coming back on. She was noticeably heavier in Nagano than in Philly. I suppose I wouldn't have expected her to give up her place on the team, but it was pretty sad how the Campbell's soup girls were touted for a possible sweep and Bobek ended up in like 18th place. Sad.
    Ahh, OK.
    I do think the sweep was maybe a bit over-hyped, there was a lot of skaters to beat for the bronze but it was possible. Sad was the only way to describe it. Nicole had so much natural talent but not the discipline needed. She did skate better than Kwiatkowski at the US nationals so she did earn her spot. Sometimes the most gifted skaters aren't the most disciplined.

  8. #23
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coppertop1 View Post
    (Re Eman) His artistic temperament is what made him so inconsistent. It was really frustrating to watch him wow everyone one day then tank the next. I remember when he was 16th in 2007, I told my Mom and she just looked at me and said "You aren't serious?" I'm like yeah, I am. IMO, he needed a good helping of tough love. I wonder what went through Joanne McLeod's head watching him.
    I always thought it was McLeod who was bringing him down. I so wanted him to get a coach that would tell him to STOP being a diva and be an athlete. (Also same with Weir) Eman and the Mira-cle were McLeod's for better or worse. I never understood it. It was like a learned helplessness thing. They never got away from her. Inexplicable.

    Also, this 'artistic temperament' doesn't hold up for me. I have an artistic temperament. I sing, dance, paint, write and am sharp as a tack on all these things. Artistic temperament to me just means a spoiled diva. Any person with an artistic temperament would pull out than keep on giving one bad performance after another. I understand it, the desire for perfection, but lack of perfection does not excuse bailing out on everything.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I have an artistic temperament. I sing, dance, paint, write and am sharp as a tack on all these things. Artistic temperament to me just means a spoiled diva.
    So logic concludes you are spoiled diva?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post

    . . .

    So I was thinking, what are some other reasons given for someone's bad skate? I was thinking of a few examples. (Note: I have no idea how true these reasons are, they are just things I heard from various sources)

    . . .
    Tonya--skate fell off/became untied (yeah, don't know if I believe it, either)
    . . .
    Poodlepal, I really felt nostalgic reading your listing of all the classic stories, and they jarred my memory in a nice way of a skater I really loved in the 90's (for her great skating when she was on) but who always seemed to have performance anxiety at the big international events. I am meaning Josée Chouinard. I will never forget her having to skate directly after Tonya Harding at the 1994 Olympics. The lace incident totally threw her and the ice became a magnet for her bum.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I always thought it was McLeod who was bringing him down. I so wanted him to get a coach that would tell him to STOP being a diva and be an athlete. (Also same with Weir) Eman and the Mira-cle were McLeod's for better or worse. I never understood it. It was like a learned helplessness thing. They never got away from her. Inexplicable.

    Also, this 'artistic temperament' doesn't hold up for me. I have an artistic temperament. I sing, dance, paint, write and am sharp as a tack on all these things. Artistic temperament to me just means a spoiled diva. Any person with an artistic temperament would pull out than keep on giving one bad performance after another. I understand it, the desire for perfection, but lack of perfection does not excuse bailing out on everything.
    Agreed. Artistry doesn't mean lack of discipline or behavioral skills.

    One thing that sticks in my mind is that Nationals (IIRC) where Johnny Weir came out, skated for about five seconds, and suddenly left the ice, never to come back. It took me years to trust him after that.

  12. #27
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    Brian Joubert has said that he knew before the Vancouver Olympics that he wasn't ready and that in hindsight he shouldn't have competed there. but who can WD from the Olympics without any real reason? Nobody.

    Lulu's bad SP at 1997 Worlds has been attributed to injury. Nobunari Oda's SP disaster at 2010 Worlds has been linked to him being stressed over his girlfriend (now wife) discovering that she was pregnant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johar View Post
    Sandhu once blamed a ghost in his hotel room for his bad performance.
    Complaining about hotel ghosts is not unprecedented in sports. There's a hotel in Milwaukee that's supposedly haunted and lots of MLB players have complained about it. Some refuse to stay there or sleep with their bats. But a skater would be defenseless

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    Weir and Sandhu have their similarities. But Sandhu wasn't as technically sound, and I don't think had the secure edging that Weir had. I can understand Sandhu being upset about 98, but he carried that for far too long. He should have been happy with his performance at his first senior Nationals and gone on from there. Weir was frustrating because he did not skate "smart". It seemed he was always leaving a jumping pass on the table, not doing a 3 jump combo, not maximizing his spins, etc.

    Bobek injured herself right before or during her Nationals exhibition IIRC. She was off the ice for too long and couldn't regain her fitness. She was always crash-training and it appeared crash-dieting, so once she backed off her training the weight started coming back on. She was noticeably heavier in Nagano than in Philly. I suppose I wouldn't have expected her to give up her place on the team, but it was pretty sad how the Campbell's soup girls were touted for a possible sweep and Bobek ended up in like 18th place. Sad.
    So it was too much Campbell's soup that kind of caused Bobek to bomb, hmmm....weight always the weight.

  14. #29
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaeljones View Post
    Poodlepal, I really felt nostalgic reading your listing of all the classic stories, and they jarred my memory in a nice way of a skater I really loved in the 90's (for her great skating when she was on) but who always seemed to have performance anxiety at the big international events. I am meaning Josée Chouinard. I will never forget her having to skate directly after Tonya Harding at the 1994 Olympics. The lace incident totally threw her and the ice became a magnet for her bum.
    Another story in Canadian lore... If you time it, Chouinard maybe was on the ice 30 seconds before she should have been. If 30 seconds would throw her off that much, she wasn't much of an athlete or anything, really. Curiously, she did the exact same program, also with three falls, later at Worlds a few weeks after. No Harding to blame there.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I always thought it was McLeod who was bringing him down. I so wanted him to get a coach that would tell him to STOP being a diva and be an athlete. (Also same with Weir) Eman and the Mira-cle were McLeod's for better or worse. I never understood it. It was like a learned helplessness thing. They never got away from her. Inexplicable.
    I'm with you. It seems McLeod's students have never been able to break through. Sandhu needed some tough love. A coach who would tell him "Quit blaming 1998, get it together and learn to be an athlete and a competitor or we're through." Like Frank Carroll or John Nicks.
    Mira was a strange case, she seemed the opposite of Sandu, disciplined and focused though her jumping technique was strange and her artistry did lack. She fired Joanne McLeod several times and went back to her, judging from some comments here, it was a lot to do with her mother who was an overbearing skating mom. She had promise then fell off the map completely. On the flip side, Canadian teenage sensation, Nam Nguyen used to train with Joanne McLeod, but he has changed to Brian Orser. A wise choice.

    One thing I heard is McLeod does not believe in sports psychology which is why she didn't get one for Sandu (and he definitely needed one), though Sandu did work with one in 2005-06. What it comes down to, as Paul Martini said while commentating during Emanuel's LP at the 2006 Olympics, there comes a time you just need to take responsibility for yourself.


    Also, this 'artistic temperament' doesn't hold up for me. I have an artistic temperament. I sing, dance, paint, write and am sharp as a tack on all these things. Artistic temperament to me just means a spoiled diva. Any person with an artistic temperament would pull out than keep on giving one bad performance after another. I understand it, the desire for perfection, but lack of perfection does not excuse bailing out on everything
    Well, Sandhu sure acted like a spoiled diva. If the shoe fits. . .. It's not an excuse, I agree. Sandhu so often would miss the first two jumps and implode. He'd rather pop a jump than fall, though falling gives you partial marks, a single gets nothing.

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