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Thread: Unusually good or bad performances, and reasons given

  1. #31
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spread beagle View Post
    So logic concludes you are spoiled diva?
    HAH! I was quickly typing, so I didn't recheck. Though I guess I could say at one point I have been a 'spoiled diva'. lol. What I meant was when people use 'artistic temperament' to explain away awfulness in a performance. Usually an artist with an intense mindset will not go out and fall four times. After one fall, it's doubles and a clean watered down program after. I've seen Eman skate so many times it is painful. You can tell when he gets stage fright. It's written all over him and his body doesn't move as smoothly. I particularly LURVE his 1998 Nationals freeskate, because he went for it and did it, before he had any expectations. That was the Sandhu I hoped to see from that point on, but nope. He was swallowed up in controversy and anger. Very disappointing.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    HAH! I was quickly typing, so I didn't recheck. Though I guess I could say at one point I have been a 'spoiled diva'. lol. What I meant was when people use 'artistic temperament' to explain away awfulness in a performance. Usually an artist with an intense mindset will not go out and fall four times. After one fall, it's doubles and a clean watered down program after. I've seen Eman skate so many times it is painful. You can tell when he gets stage fright. It's written all over him and his body doesn't move as smoothly. I particularly LURVE his 1998 Nationals freeskate, because he went for it and did it, before he had any expectations. That was the Sandhu I hoped to see from that point on, but nope. He was swallowed up in controversy and anger. Very disappointing.
    I know, I waited for Sandhu to have that breakthrough. I saw him at nationals in 1998 and thought "WOW! This one is going places, he's gonna be something special with some more time and experience." He handled himself will in 1998, he didn't make excuses when he tanked at Worlds, though all the focus on him would be distracting for an inexperienced skater, so then it was understandable. Not an excuse years later. He lost his class and became entitled. I remember in 1999-00, he was second at Canadians but instead of deciding to send him, Skate Canada decided to have a skate off between him and Ben Ferreira at the 4CC, whoever finished higher there went to Worlds. McLeod said it was "another trial for Emanuel" or something like that, but I wonder if it was SC sending Sandhu a message: "We know how much potential you have but internationally, you are yet to prove yourself, you are not the option to send to Worlds as the second male" Ferreira was usually pretty consistent.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    Another story in Canadian lore... If you time it, Chouinard maybe was on the ice 30 seconds before she should have been. If 30 seconds would throw her off that much, she wasn't much of an athlete or anything, really. Curiously, she did the exact same program, also with three falls, later at Worlds a few weeks after. No Harding to blame there.
    I agree with you that it probably wasn't outcome determinative, but I do sympathize with her because training for years for your moment on the big stage, you do hope everything lines up for you to give the best performance.

  4. #34
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    Josee was beautiful to watch on the ice but I never had confidence that she would skate clean. She was just one of those skaters - like Sasha Cohen - that it was just a matter of time before she fell or doubled a triple or something to undermine what would otherwise be a great skate.

    I do agree with pretty much everything said here about Eman. And without knowing too much about Mcleod, I think the guy needed some tough love for sure. If he really was using the excuse that he was still mad about a previous skate and judgement, then he need a swift kick in the posterior and a "come to Jesus" talk. All that talent and hardly ever when it counted. It's just like Jeremy Abbott. What does it take to get these guys to forget their heads and just concentrate on their skates!!

    My son has a very good friend who is a sports psychologist and teaching pro in Northern California. I've had discussions with her many times about "the mind of a skater!" She said the most successful skaters are the ones that go out on the ice and somehow just get into a zone where they don't hear anything but their music and they don't think about anything except what comes next in their programs. She said you can almost see it in a skater's eyes when they take that first pose before the music starts and she used Patrick Chan and Jeremy Abbott as examples. Patrick goes out, strikes his pose, closes his eyes a few times and takes a deep breath and you just know. Jeremy has that "deer in the headlights" look and is almost twitching when he strikes his beginning pose. Then if he flubs his first quad.......wrap it up. It's over.

  5. #35
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    At Worlds 2003, there was a fire alarm and evacuation of a hotel in the middle of the night. Several skaters blamed bad results on that, AFAIR.

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    Emmanuel Sandhu! I remember him, but didn't really know that much about him, he was just a guy from Canada who never won much but was always around. Everybody has such fond or not-so-fond memories of him.

    I remember some coach complaining that Emmanuel and Johnny weren't "real men" (or something like that) like the Brians were. I know exactly what he meant. Brian Boitano and Brian Orser were competitors, they weren't an inch away from a meltdown the way Johnny and Emmanuel always were.

  7. #37
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    I remember some coach complaining that Emmanuel and Johnny weren't "real men" (or something like that) like the Brians were. I know exactly what he meant. Brian Boitano and Brian Orser were competitors, they weren't an inch away from a meltdown the way Johnny and Emmanuel always were.
    That is awful, yet kind of hysterical. Not one of those four men would be considered a 'real man' by this jerk! lol. Who was the coach, btw? Evy?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    My son has a very good friend who is a sports psychologist and teaching pro in Northern California. I've had discussions with her many times about "the mind of a skater!" She said the most successful skaters are the ones that go out on the ice and somehow just get into a zone where they don't hear anything but their music and they don't think about anything except what comes next in their programs. She said you can almost see it in a skater's eyes when they take that first pose before the music starts and she used Patrick Chan and Jeremy Abbott as examples. Patrick goes out, strikes his pose, closes his eyes a few times and takes a deep breath and you just know. Jeremy has that "deer in the headlights" look and is almost twitching when he strikes his beginning pose. Then if he flubs his first quad.......wrap it up. It's over.
    Patrick wins a lot but I think it's due to his otherworldly talent rather than being a strong competitor. When I watch him I don't feel at all confident he'll nail everything.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Patrick wins a lot but I think it's due to his otherworldly talent rather than being a strong competitor. When I watch him I don't feel at all confident he'll nail everything.
    I'm not confident about that even when a skater barely misses. Generally, I don't worry too much about Patrick. I do think he is a good competitor, most of the time. Another thing is he doesn't make excuses, and always looking to improve, even when he has been close to perfect.

    I do agree with pretty much everything said here about Eman. And without knowing too much about Mcleod, I think the guy needed some tough love for sure. If he really was using the excuse that he was still mad about a previous skate and judgement, then he need a swift kick in the posterior and a "come to Jesus" talk. All that talent and hardly ever when it counted. It's just like Jeremy Abbott. What does it take to get these guys to forget their heads and just concentrate on their skates!!
    Sandhu admitted to being bitter about 1998, in a profile of him at the 2006 Olympics he said so. I agree he needed some tough love. That's why I think he needed a coach like Frank Carroll, who tells his skaters to look to themselves and not to blame others for a bad performance. Someone to tell him to shape up or ship out.

  10. #40
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coppertop1 View Post
    Sandhu admitted to being bitter about 1998, in a profile of him at the 2006 Olympics he said so. I agree he needed some tough love. That's why I think he needed a coach like Frank Carroll, who tells his skaters to look to themselves and not to blame others for a bad performance. Someone to tell him to shape up or ship out.
    Since McLeod had Eman and the "Mira-cle" as her top students, I wonder what the heck she ever did for them???? Go to the big city, go to Toronto. Clean up your shortcomings. What did McLeod have that I have never understood?!?!?

  11. #41
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    There is not a chance that Shizuka Arakawa would've won in Torino if Sasha Cohen and Irina Slutskaya had skated clean programs. I know that, in Cohen's case, having 2 mistakes in the LP wasn't a huge departure from the norm. Still, her R & J program was so beautiful that if she'd done 6 clean triples (and not fallen), she'd probably have won. Ditto Slutskaya, whose program was way less artistic but was technically superior to Shizuka's.

    Also, Sarah Hughes's win in Salt Lake almost proves there is a God somewhere. The stars totally aligned for her that night. I think that's the only way to explain her victory.

  12. #42
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amc987 View Post

    Also, Sarah Hughes's win in Salt Lake almost proves there is a God somewhere. The stars totally aligned for her that night. I think that's the only way to explain her victory.
    No, it proves there is no God. I was so outspokenly anti-Sarah back then. When SLC happened I had several Skatefans friends call me personally and apologize! Too funny. I liked the Ave Maria with those hunched shoulders and gangly arms though. Nice touch for a Jewish girl. Robin knew how to package, didn't she?

  13. #43
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    There's no mystery about how Sarah won.
    1. She was kept in 4th place after the short because she was the defending bronze medalist from the Worlds. Evgeny fell and was kept in 4th because of his reputation at that Olympics. There was a pair team that fell and was also kept up there. They were just not going to put a potential medalist back in 8th place or whatever, which would have put them out of contention with that method of judging. Maybe it wasn't fair, but it was consistent.

    2. She skated a long program clean with no falls and no step-outs and completed a couple of triple-triples to the satisfaction of the judges.

    Today, would she have won? Probably not. Probably Michelle would be declared superior in the "skating skills" department and could have fallen multiple times and still won. But back then, that's how they did it and she had the best long program that night in that she did what she was supposed to.

  14. #44
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    IF ONLY Sasha landed her 3lutz-3toe............................................

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    No, it proves there is no God. I was so outspokenly anti-Sarah back then. When SLC happened I had several Skatefans friends call me personally and apologize! Too funny. I liked the Ave Maria with those hunched shoulders and gangly arms though. Nice touch for a Jewish girl. Robin knew how to package, didn't she?
    Or that there is a God and He/She LOVES Sarah Hughes for whatever reason. I maintain that Sarah couldn't have won that night without divine intervention. She had never skated that well in competition before and she never skated that well at a competition again. Plus, being in 4th place after the short, she needed a lot of help from Michelle and Irina.

    Now, if you want support for the God doesn't exist/ He or She hates us all theory, let's consider that Michelle Kwan never won an OGM. Her performance in Nagano would've been good enough to win in 92, 94, 02, and 06. She might even have won in 98 if she'd skated later in her group than Lipinski. Instead we have Baiul, Hughes, and Arakawa as Olympic champs and Kwan sans gold. It's unfortunate.

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