The Olympic team event | Golden Skate

The Olympic team event

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
So, how is the Olympic team thing shaping up? Five teams make the cut for the long program, which will be Russia, Canada, USA, Japan and probably Italy or China (or France?). The way the scoring goes, the teams that have at least an OK skater in every discipline will have an advantage over teams that are trying to ride a three-legged horse.

Here is my preliminary prediction for the LP only. :)

Canada

Chan (1)
Osmond (5)
Virtue and Moir (2)
Duhamel and Radford (2)

Total 10

Russia

Plushenko (3)
Lipnitskaia (4)
Bobrova and Soloviev (3)
Volosozhar and Trankov (1)

Total 11

USA

Rippon? (4)
Wagner (3)
Davis and White (1)
Denney and Coughlin (4)

Total 12

Japan

Takahashi (2)
Asada (1)
Reed and Reed (5)
Pair? (5)

Total 13

Italy

Man? (5)
Kostner (2)
Capellini and Lanotte (4)
Berton and Hotarek (3)

Total 14

Potential heros: Lipnitskaia could beat Kostner and Wagner and win for Russia.

Zijun Li could skate well enough in the short program for China to beat Italy for the fifth spot.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Wow, 1 point apart! It really will come down to placements like Osmond and Lipnitskaia.

Is it a combination of SP and FS placements, or do the top 5 teams move on and the slate is clean for the FS?
 

coppertop1

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
So the lower score the better since it's placements. Looking at this, I think Mathman's prediction is right. Canada has three medal contenders at least Patrick Chan, Virtue\Moir and Duhamel and Radford. USA's two strongest events are Dance and Ladies, Davis and White and Ashley Wagner. Japan's strength is in single skating, with Asada and the leading men, probably Takahashi. I'm sure he'll get a bye. Russia is the strongest in pairs, ladies and dance. China is strong in pairs and has a good chance with Li. Italy's strongest events are ladies, with Kostner and dance. So I'd say this prediction sounds pretty accurate. With Russia, it all depends on whether or not Plushenko is there for the men.

Thanks for the explanation of the breakdown.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Plushenko could finish a place higher (2nd) and Lipnitskaya 2 places (2nd). Also Wagner and the American man (?) could do a bit better and move the US up a spot. However, the 5th qualifying team could have a man that can set the US back a spot in the LP which could mess things up for the Americans. I'd be very surprised if gold doesn't come down between Russia and Canada.
 

coppertop1

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Plushenko could finish a place higher (2nd) and Lipnitskaya 2 places (2nd). Also Wagner and the American man (?) could do a bit better and move the US up a spot. However, the 5th qualifying team could have a man that can set the US back a spot in the LP which could mess things up for the Americans. I'd be very surprised if gold doesn't come down between Russia and Canada.

This makes sense. I think the format is two men, two women, one pairs team and once dance team. I think Canada and Russia are evenly matched.
Canada is strongest in men with Patrick Chan, and the second man (I'll say Reynolds for now) being the wild card. Same with Russia, going under the assumption that Plushenko is there. Hard to say who is at an advantage, I'd say Chan, because he is younger and healthy. Close call.
Both are strong in pairs, but Russia has a slight edge with Volosozhar/Trankov.
Both are strong in dance, but this time the edge goes to Canada with Virtue/Moir, the defending Olympic Champions.
Russia is strong in women's, with whichever two teen stars go to Russia. Kaetlyn Osmond could do well, but she has been injured. So Russia goes to the edge. I'll go with Lipnitskaia for the first Russian lady skater.

For the second man, Reynolds hasn't competed a lot due to boot problems. Let's say the second man for Russia in the team is Kovtun. I'd say Canada, again. Reynolds is more experienced and finished fifth in the World last year. Question is, is he in shape?
For the second lady, I'm saying Gabrielle Daleman for Canada. Adelina Sotnikova (I have no idea if it's her who will be there I'm just saying her because she is more experienced and not to be counted out of the Russian team, it could be anyone). I'd go with Adelina for the edge.

So the Russians have the overall advantage in pairs and ladies, the Canadians have the advantage in dance and men.

I think bronze is between US and Japan.
 

rvi5

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
...I think the format is two men, two women, one pairs team and once dance team...
It is two men, two ladies, one dance, and one pairs at the WTT in Japan. As I understand it, the Olympic format is one male singles, one female singles, one dance team, and one pair team. Although, different skaters can compete in SP and LP if desired and qualified.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
It is two men, two ladies, one dance, and one pairs at the WTT in Japan. As I understand it, the Olympic format is one male singles, one female singles, one dance team, and one pair team. Although, different competitors can compete in SP and LP if desired and qualified.

Correct re one entry in each discipline for the Olympic team event.
But for each country, only two disciplines are allowed to have different competitors in the SP (or SD) and FS (or FD).

(The rules for the Olympic team event are explained within this 12-page PDF from the ISU. See Annex A, starting on page 5.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
To illustrate the disadvantage that a team has if they are weak in one area, suppose the short program for Italy goes

Kostner (1)
Capellini and Lanotte (3)
Berton and Hotarek (4)
Man (10)

Total 18

China goes

Yan (2)
Pang and Tong (2)
Li (4)
Dance (10)

Total (18)

Both are beaten by a solid middle of the road team that goes 4th, 4th,4th, 5th (17)

On the other hand, among the ten qualifying teams there will be several who cannot field competitive pairs or dancers. A lot depends on whether, say, the Chinese dance team can finish sixth or seventh instead of ninth or tenth.
 

coppertop1

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
This is where Japan is at a disadvantage, with their pairs and dance not as strong. I predict bronze between Japan and the US

After the short program:
Japan
Asada (1)
Japanese pairs team (10)
Daisuke (2)
Japanese dance team (10)
Total 23. They may be kept off the podium for that

USA
Wagner (3)
Denney/Coughlin (8)
Davis/White (2)
Rippon (5)
Total 18
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Reed and Reed may do better than tenth, though. Each country can send only one team, Japan is not the only country that does not have a contender in dance, and some countries may have a dance team but they are not in the competition at all, not having made the top ten overall. Reed and Reed should beat China's team, for instance.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Can someone explain exactly how this event will work? It seems there will be a short program. How much will it count versus the long? Will the same skater have to skate the short and the long?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Thanks to golden411 for looking up the rules and posting them on the Plushenko/Kovtun thread. :bow:

Ten countries qualify for the team competition. There is a short program. Each country's team comprises one man, one lady, one pairs couple and one dance couple. The team members must be skaters that have already earned a place in the individual competitions to come later, with some exceptions allowed. Only placements are carried forward, not CoP points.

The top five teams advance to the long program. It general the same skaters that contested the short program will also skate the long, but a country with deep talent is permitted to make a substitution in one or two disciplines if desired. (For instance Japan could go with Hanyu in the short, Takahashi in the long.) The placements in the long program are added to the placements in the short program to determine the overall winner.

This puts a lot of emphasis on the short program (no factored placements!)

Example, Canada

SP: Chan (1)
Osmond (6)
Duhamel and Radford (3)
Virtue and Moir (1)

Total 11

LP: Chan (1)
Osmond (4)
D&R (2)
V&M (2)

Total 9

Overall 20.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
The rules are a mess. The short program actually counts MORE than the LP, because in the LP only 5 countries are allowed to compete. If you bomb the LP, it doesn't hurt your standing nearly as much as it could in the SP, and it also greatly helps teams that are very weak in certain disciplines.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
SP specialists will be major contributors here. This favors a nation with deep field(s). I don't see any reason Japan wouldn't have Hanyu skate the SP and another Man LP, Takahashi if he goes to Sochi. Both would have reserve for the Single event.

What about Russia, Japan, and the US for the Ladies? What American Men will skate the programs? The Chinese Pairs?
 

coppertop1

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Reed and Reed may do better than tenth, though. Each country can send only one team, Japan is not the only country that does not have a contender in dance, and some countries may have a dance team but they are not in the competition at all, not having made the top ten overall. Reed and Reed should beat China's team, for instance.

True.

So the tally of placements are added up, for the SP and LP and that's how the medals are determined?
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
I'd also like to point out that these rules inherently promote corruption and unsportsmanlike conduct.

A team like Germany has NO chance at winning a medal (and almost no chance at even making it into the LP segment). But, how Savchenko/Skolkowy place in the SP can change the entire result of the event.

Canada, USA, Japan, and Italy could all pay Savchenko/Skolkowy to bomb the SP, giving their pair team a higher placement, which increases their chances of beating Russia.

And why should the Germans not take the money? Their country won't even make it into the LP segment of the competition. Their performance in the SP means absolutely nothing; they are essentially being FORCED to compete in an event that belittles their own talent and offers no rewards.

Maybe it would even help their chances in the individual event to fake an injury during the team event and bomb the SP (one of them can single out on the side-by-side jumps, they can purposely get a 0 on their spin element), because that way if they deliver perfectly later on in the individual event it will be seen as an amazing "Olympic" recovery.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
The rules are a mess. The short program actually counts MORE than the LP, because in the LP only 5 countries are allowed to compete. If you bomb the LP, it doesn't hurt your standing nearly as much as it could in the SP, and it also greatly helps teams that are very weak in certain disciplines.

I agree. I think the SP should either be just a qualifying round or the placements should be factored.
 

guenever

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
I believe S/S have said they want to sit the team event out because it's a waste of their time when they have no real chance, especially as it's so close to the real pairs event.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Thanks to golden411 for looking up the rules and posting them on the Plushenko/Kovtun thread. :bow:

Ten countries qualify for the team competition. There is a short program. Each country's team comprises one man, one lady, one pairs couple and one dance couple. The team members must be skaters that have already earned a place in the individual competitions to come later, with some exceptions allowed. Only placements are carried forward, not CoP points.

The top five teams advance to the long program. It general the same skaters that contested the short program will also skate the long, but a country with deep talent is permitted to make a substitution in one or two disciplines if desired. (For instance Japan could go with Hanyu in the short, Takahashi in the long.) The placements in the long program are added to the placements in the short program to determine the overall winner.

This puts a lot of emphasis on the short program (no factored placements!)

Example, Canada

SP: Chan (1)
Osmond (6)
Duhamel and Radford (3)
Virtue and Moir (1)

Total 11 ....

Thx for the shout-out, MM -- and for the thread. :)
And thx for your excellent summary of the team event. :bow:

So the lower score the better since it's placements.

One little suggestion to everyone -- to avoid some possible confusion going forward:
The official ISU placement points in Sochi will be awarded in "descending" (my word) order, if you know what I mean. Although the important thing is the concept of placement points vs. scores, maybe GS members will be a bit better prepared to process the team event if we all try to get accustomed to the ISU order. (Of course, I am not saying that any posts above ought to be revised. Just an FYI before any future ones assessing the landscape. :popcorn:)

For each discipline and segment placement points will be awarded as follows:
- 1st 10 placement points
- 2nd 9 placement points
....
- 9th 2 placement points
- 10th 1 placement point​

Sorry for nitpicking, everyone. ;) It's just that many of us still are wrapping our heads around the team event, which is barely two months away now.
Once the event gets going, the teams with the highest number of placement points (as defined by the ISU) will be in the best positions to win medals.
 
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