Please see the deductions for "less than required revolutions" or "starting from the wrong edge". How more clearly defined can you get? What could possibly be more clearly defined?
I wasn't holding them up as paragons, as I already pointed out that Shizuka did sometimes underrotate the backend triple of a 3/3. And yes, both had very obvious lips. But they didn't have the mule kick or flutzes that we were discussing, so they're good counterexamples to the original poster's argument, particularly since they're both Japanese and they trained under AND competed under 6.0, yet managed to have true lutzes and avoid the hammer toe flaw.Even Shizuka Arakawa and Miki Ando who you hold up as paragons of good technique both had problems with outside edge takeoffs on their flips, and both have had plenty of problems rotating 3-3 combos. Miki Ando has also had her -2Loop-2Loop combinations downgraded in the past.