Men SP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Men SP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

caitie

Medalist
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Hanyu delivered a fantastic performance! I hope he can keep it together during the LP and win this thing.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
We yet again see how poorly implemented the Zayak rules are in CoP. It's beyond absurd that this still hasn't been fixed. If Machida had done a single-rotation toeloop at the opening of the program, instead of a double, his score would have gone up 7 points. :rolleye: :rolleye:
 

Gigi13

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Phenomenal performance from Yuzuru omg and that score :bow: love it love it love it! this is like the best I've seen him skate all season like wow. I wish him good luck in the free and it was so cute what he did with the little and big pooh in the K&C.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I guess a moving camera could be distracting.

it's not like this is a new thing, though. I'll have to wait and watch his skate to see for myself, but it seems silly to complain of something that's been around for a long while.
 

David21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
We yet again see how poorly implemented the Zayak rules are in CoP. It's beyond absurd that this still hasn't been fixed. If Machida had done a single-rotation toeloop at the opening of the program, instead of a double, his score would have gone up 7 points. :rolleye: :rolleye:


I agree it's a bit ridiculous. That strange "zayak rule" for the SP should not count for double jumps IMO. That first double toe didn't really count anyway since you can't do just a double toe alone so Machida should have been allowed to do add a double toe after the lutz.
 

emdee

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
it's not like this is a new thing, though. I'll have to wait and watch his skate to see for myself, but it seems silly to complain of something that's been around for a long while.

I haven't seen the overhead sky cams that move in North American rinks. They usually have the fixed ones up in the rafters.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
I'm pretty sure they had one also at 2000 Nations Cup. Also at 1994 Masters Miko, ruining Wylie wonderful performance.

Yes, the sky cams have been around for awhile. Usually I don't like that view, but at one competition, I remember a breath taking view of Kwan doing a spin.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
I agree it's a bit ridiculous. That strange "zayak rule" for the SP should not count for doubles.

Agreed, it's logically wrong.

The tech panel needs to manually apply the zayak rules, towards whatever gives the skater the highest score. With the way it's setup right now, the order also matters, even though it really shouldn't. If Machida had done a 3Lutz+2Toe combo and then a solo 2Toe, he still would have received credit for the combo.
 

sapphiresky

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Well, Yuzuru certainly performed with a lot of dedication today, he was really selling his program. Of course, it helped that he landed all of this jumps...he was obviously very excited about this and skated with more power towards the end too.

It makes me wonder if PChan would get 100 if he skated cleanly today too. The judges probably wouldn't put him under Hanyu if both were clean, even if this competition is in Japan.

I was looking forward to vids being posted because I wanted to see Patrick drop the F-bomb. Hahaha...man that was interesting.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
It makes me wonder if PChan would get 100 if he skated cleanly today too. The judges probably wouldn't put him under Hanyu if both were clean, even if this competition is in Japan.

It is hard to say for certain but the two times he was clean in the short he got 98 and change so that might have happened again. Or he might have topped 100, it is pretty impossible to say. Hanyu was clean in the short past and got 95 and change, but he wasnt in Japan on those occasions. I think the judges would be willing to possibly put a clean Chan behind Hanyu in the short. I said even last year I thought Hanyu had a chance of beating Chan in the short (although not certain to) if both were clean, and obviously would be more likely to happen in Japan than anywhere else. The long is a different story. I dont think Hanyu would have any chance to beat a clean Chan in the LP phase.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Of course he would have a chance, if he were to skate perfectly. He has an 8.4 point base value advantage over Chan in the LP.
 

Becki

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
It is hard to say for certain but the two times he was clean in the short he got 98 and change so that might have happened again. Or he might have topped 100, it is pretty impossible to say. Hanyu was clean in the short past and got 95 and change, but he wasnt in Japan on those occasions. I think the judges would be willing to possibly put a clean Chan behind Hanyu in the short. I said even last year I thought Hanyu had a chance of beating Chan in the short (although not certain to) if both were clean, and obviously would be more likely to happen in Japan than anywhere else. The long is a different story. I dont think Hanyu would have any chance to beat a clean Chan in the LP phase.

I think a clean Chan in the short can beat a clean Hanyu. If Chan was clean yesterday, his score would've been 100+. However, a clean Hanyu can beat a clean Chan on the basis of TES Base Value advantage and GOE.

That's just my two cents.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I think a clean Chan in the short can beat a clean Hanyu. If Chan was clean yesterday, his score would've been 100+. However, a clean Hanyu can beat a clean Chan on the basis of TES Base Value advantage and GOE.

That's just my two cents.

I didnt say a clean Chan in the short cant beat a clean Hanyu. Of course he can, he did easily a few weeks ago. I just think the reverse is also true, especialy in Japan. That was my only point. I dont think at all it is certain Chan was going to be given a 100+ when his spectacular SP at Worlds in CANADA (which is one of the 3 top countries in home cooked scores, along with Japan, and of course both behind the clear leader Russia) didnt even get that. Hanyu set a new SP WR so of course he has a chance vs anyone in the short. I think in the short both skating cleanly anything can happen, but in the long Chan would win for sure due to PCS (although if both skate a clean LP here I am pretty sure Hanyu will now win due to his short program gap).
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
That's one of the things that bothers me about skating. An outcome in a sport should never be influenced by location but that's skating for ya.
 

supsu

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
So i guess a skater popping his 4t to 3t couldn't do his perhaps planned 3lz+3t? Cause i don't remember seeing point deductions on such or perhaps there haven't been any..

Also, how does the zayak rule work in the long? Is there more rules than max 2 same triples (one in a combo) and max 3 combos..? I can't remember the scores and skaters of those I didn't get the points (or loss of points)..
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
I agree it's a bit ridiculous. That strange "zayak rule" for the SP should not count for double jumps IMO. That first double toe didn't really count anyway since you can't do just a double toe alone so Machida should have been allowed to do add a double toe after the lutz.

:eek: I was so surprised to see when his score first came up and I was like :unsure: you know. Even I checked its protocol, I still had no idea why his 3Lz+2T did not count at all. For many years, until last night, I believed this rule applys only to triple jumps. Even after seeing what has happend, I still believe it should apply only triples. Especially in SP. ITA with you. Just senseless, isn't it? :mad: Ouch for Tatsuki in score-wise...really.

Oh, and the way they scored last night, OGM is supposed to be between Patrick and Yuzuru it seem. by ISU and its judges preference.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
So i guess a skater popping his 4t to 3t couldn't do his perhaps planned 3lz+3t? Cause i don't remember seeing point deductions on such or perhaps there haven't been any..

Also, how does the zayak rule work in the long? Is there more rules than max 2 same triples (one in a combo) and max 3 combos..? I can't remember the scores and skaters of those I didn't get the points (or loss of points)..

The other thing to note if you fail to do a combo on either of the two attempts on the triple, one of them will still count as a combo. So you have to be careful not to add an extra combo by accident.

For example
4T
3A
3A+ SEQ (due to not doing a combo)
3Z+3T
3F-1L+3S
3L
3Z
2A

Although two combos were done, the second 3A without a combo still counts as a combo, so you can't try to make up points by adding it to another jump otherwise you end up with too many combos.
 

Becki

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
:eek: I was so surprised to see when his score first came up and I was like :unsure: you know. Even I checked its protocol, I still had no idea why his 3Lz+2T did not count at all. For many years, until last night, I believed this rule applys only to triple jumps. Even after seeing what has happend, I still believe it should apply only triples. Especially in SP. ITA with you. Just senseless, isn't it? :mad: Ouch for Tatsuki in score-wise...really.

Oh, and the way they scored last night, OGM is supposed to be between Patrick and Yuzuru it seem. by ISU and its judges preference.

Yeah, poor Tatsuki. I still think he will end up above Kovtun and Yan because of past scores. With a 170+, he'll probably move up to 4th.
 
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