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Thread: Ladies SP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    Except Mao's 3A would never deserve -2. For a jump that is <, the range is -1 to -2, and -2 is only deserved with jumps that are close to <<. Which Mao's 3A was not.
    Or has something else wrong with it.

    As others have noted, if the call is <, the judges are supposed to subtract -1 or -2 from whatever GOE they would have given that jump without the underrotation. So if they found several things good about it aside from the underrotation, then +1-1 = 0 or +2-1 = +1 are valid scores.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    If it WAS going to get called, then it definitely should NOT receive -GOE.

    Double fail on the part of the judges. Par for the course.
    If I understand what you're saying, then single fail for the tech panel + single fail for the judges = double fail overall, but not from any one official.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapphiresky View Post
    ^ ^ What's "good" anyway...is there even a standard? ...
    Well, there are general good qualities for all jumps (see the +GOE guidelines), e.g., good speed and clean edges in and out, good ice coverage, good height, well-organized air position. Delay starting the rotation is a positive point but uncommon for triples by women, and completing the rotation above the ice so there's no question about rotation is also valued.

    For axel in particular the "step up" with the free leg is valued, and some amount of skid on the entry edge is considered a negative but acceptable within reason, without loss of alignment, since few skaters are able to achieve triple axel from a perfectly clean edge.

    Would you call Patrick Chan's 3A technique good? Plushenko's air positions during the last OG left a lot to be desired, but it was crazy to see him adjust himself to land those things, so I would call his technique good.
    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    I think Mao's triple axel technique is better than Patrick's, and if his' is gonna get ratified, then Mao's should be too.
    Obviously full rotation is better technique than underrotation, and good technique contributes to full rotation. But so does body type. Often a man who jumps higher and has greater upper body strength to initiate the rotation (or a skinny girl who can rotate faster) can get away with less than perfect technique and still rotate a jump that a grown woman with curves can't achieve even with perfect technique.

  2. #212
    LEAVE EDMUNDS ALONE!!1!
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    I am very about the reactions to Asada's 3axel downgrade. The cheat was clearly noticeable in real time, without the need for slo-mo, as the jump was hooked on the landing.

    Asada has this slight delay on starting the rotation on her jumps which makes it very difficult for her to fully complete it.

    I suspected that all four Asada's jumps were cheated, given the slightly hooked landings and the slight loss of flow on them and the slo-mo confirmed that. 3loop was cheated very slightly, 3flip and 2loop a little bit more. All clearly less than 1/4, which means no < but, following the deductions sheet, the judges should be substracting -1 from whatever base value they arrive at. I guess there is a very easy get out clause from that for them. They can't watch the jumps in slo-mo and they can't be 100% sure whether a jump is cheated without it, so they choose to give the skater the benefit of the doubt. *yawn*

    Looking at Asada's GOEs, the judges also missed the break between the steps and the 3flip and the travelling on the second position (which wasn't very well balanced either) in the flying camel.

    For the record, I don't have the aim of knocking Asada down. The judging at the (J)GPF has been pretty poor so far, and you could find omissions and questionable judgements for most of the skaters.

    For this particular event, the 'blind as a bat prize' should be awarded to the judging panel for Wagner's flying sit which was considerably off-centred throughout (not just at one point but for most of the duration of the spin) and where none of the positions were particularly well extended. +1s and +2s. Right.

    My biggest peeve at the moment is the judges giving 'automatic' +1s and +2s for a layback just because a biellmann was executed, regardless of the actual quality of the entire element. It makes me wish biellmanns were banned because the absolutely last thing I want to see is a skater straining to pull their leg up and then just about maintaining the rotation. There are very few skaters capable of executing a biellmann with ease and flow maintaining the rotation speed. The 'maintain your dignity' prize goes to Serafima Sakhanovich for showing a beautifully extended, extremely fast layback spin, executed straight from connecting footwork, without a pointless and strained biellmann.

  3. #213
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    I'm so proud of Adelina! She's improved so much since her days in the junior ranks. Looking forward to her free skate, it's sooo much more intricate than her LP at Junior Worlds 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeXXrxjNXtA

    and does anyone know why Mao always changes her costume mid season? [i.e. short & long program dresses and the scheherazade costume] Like has she ever commented on this? I hope Mao goes back to her other lilac dress for the Olympics, I'm not a fan of the one she wore for this competition but either way i'm so glad she doesn't wear the over the boot tights anymore! the way she interprets Rachmaninoff is just so beautiful i can't get over it! ganbatte mao

  4. #214
    Rinkside astronaut's Avatar
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    Thanks very much for the ladies' short programme video links.



    Mike

  5. #215
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I am very about the reactions to Asada's 3axel downgrade. The cheat was clearly noticeable in real time, without the need for slo-mo, as the jump was hooked on the landing.

    Asada has this slight delay on starting the rotation on her jumps which makes it very difficult for her to fully complete it.

    I suspected that all four Asada's jumps were cheated, given the slightly hooked landings and the slight loss of flow on them and the slo-mo confirmed that. 3loop was cheated very slightly, 3flip and 2loop a little bit more. All clearly less than 1/4, which means no < but, following the deductions sheet, the judges should be substracting -1 from whatever base value they arrive at. I guess there is a very easy get out clause from that for them. They can't watch the jumps in slo-mo and they can't be 100% sure whether a jump is cheated without it, so they choose to give the skater the benefit of the doubt. *yawn*

    Looking at Asada's GOEs, the judges also missed the break between the steps and the 3flip and the travelling on the second position (which wasn't very well balanced either) in the flying camel.

    For the record, I don't have the aim of knocking Asada down. The judging at the (J)GPF has been pretty poor so far, and you could find omissions and questionable judgements for most of the skaters.

    For this particular event, the 'blind as a bat prize' should be awarded to the judging panel for Wagner's flying sit which was considerably off-centred throughout (not just at one point but for most of the duration of the spin) and where none of the positions were particularly well extended. +1s and +2s. Right.

    My biggest peeve at the moment is the judges giving 'automatic' +1s and +2s for a layback just because a biellmann was executed, regardless of the actual quality of the entire element. It makes me wish biellmanns were banned because the absolutely last thing I want to see is a skater straining to pull their leg up and then just about maintaining the rotation. There are very few skaters capable of executing a biellmann with ease and flow maintaining the rotation speed. The 'maintain your dignity' prize goes to Serafima Sakhanovich for showing a beautifully extended, extremely fast layback spin, executed straight from connecting footwork, without a pointless and strained biellmann.
    Completely agree (especially about Wagner and Sakhanovich)! This should be posted in the spins thread...

  6. #216
    Best comeback EVOR! zamboni step's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Completely agree (especially about Wagner and Sakhanovich)! This should be posted in the spins thread...
    I mentioned the biellmann=+GOE trend in the spin thread, giving the example of Alena Leonova receiving +1s all over the place for her average layback, and was told that Leonova has a strong layback worthy of +2s or even +3s....

    On another note that 3A was viably short on rotation, I was annoyed the second she landed it as it's one foot, damn. Also I was told the deduction for lack of rotation without a < sign is if you believe it should have received a < and it didn't. The same way you can deduct for an unclear edge the takeoff without an e sign. It either deserves one or it doesn't, and if you believe it was incorrectly not given one, you deduct.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Mao was great!! Her best ever SP performance to date!

    That technician has no soul. He's someone's well-paid pet.
    OR just one of the few who aren't :P Your pick. I always found it hilarious that he would always be so harsh on Mao. At least it's nice to see that all those people with Japanese conspiracy theories don't have an answer for him...

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebevia View Post
    Watching Mao's SP today got me speechless from satisfaction, and thank god I didn't cry (I'm at work!). Her reaction after the performance agrees with me

    The 3A did look ur'ed, but quite smooth; therefore I agree with the judges with <, and I would've given +GOE had it not been for that (or +1 even with it with caffeins). For me, it was the first time I saw her get better and better as the program progressed, and most mature of her so far. I see pink roses blooming in the background whenever I replay this SP in my head (so embarrassing). Her combos were the least nervous I've seen from her, so I expect it to be beautiful with more refinement. She seemed perfectly engaged with the music after the second jump, probably due to no major errors to disturb her; shows how psyche affects artistry; even all other elements - jumps, spins - looked much more integrated with music.

    I am really, really looking forward to the Olympics now! We can finally have some even rivalry!

    * As for the Korean judge thing, don't expect any significant favours for Koreans from her.
    Oh please, the TECHNICAL CONTROLLER was Amano. The assistent doesn't have much weight.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragray View Post
    and does anyone know why Mao always changes her costume mid season? [i.e. short & long program dresses and the scheherazade costume] Like has she ever commented on this? I hope Mao goes back to her other lilac dress for the Olympics, I'm not a fan of the one she wore for this competition but either way i'm so glad she doesn't wear the over the boot tights anymore!
    I think some of the skaters are testing the waters during the season for their Olympic programs, Julia has changed costumes in her short program and has done 2 different hairstyles for her LP.

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