Ladies SP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Ladies SP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Mao's SP last night was 'Out-of-this-world'! So light, airy, feathery aaaand heavenly! :love:
 

KwanIsALegend

Fly On
Medalist
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
I don't dislike it, she has gorgeous hair, it just seems to flop around a lot as she skates. If that were me it would drive me nuts. I agree the ponytail fits well with the music and the style of the program.
 

sapphiresky

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Wow.

I dunno, if I started playing golf, I'm pretty sure my arms would be flailing all over the place and that would "work" for me. Somehow, I doubt that my "difference" in technique would be a good one.

Obviously I'm not referring to beginners attempting something and finding something that "works". I still maintain that each athlete has their own technique, it's true in every sport. It has to do with their own body and anatomy and finding one that fits. Of course, when they are younger and developing their techniques, they are taught by what's been considered correct from coaches, but you still have to adjust it.

Skaters have different entrances into jumps as well, I don't think any (except the super awkward ones) can be considered "wrong". I've enjoyed watching different 4T's by different skaters, and preferred seeing them be slightly different from each other, that's what makes it interesting.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Mao's technique on her 3A is better than back in 2010, when she was putting a lot of strain on the entrance to get the necessary height to complete the rotation. Her 3As in 2008 were the best in terms of height and distance.
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
I think Mao's triple axel technique is better than Patrick's, and if his' is gonna get ratified, then Mao's should be too.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Mao was so beautiful in the SP! Balletic and joyful; her skate exuded peace. :love: It was the best I've seen her skate in quite some time. If she delivers performances like this at the Olympics with heart and fight, I would be happy to see her with the Olympic gold medal around her neck. My dream Olympic podium would consist of 3 of Kostner, Asada, Wagner, or Suzuki with either Carolina or Mao winning depending on who skates the best of the two. It's a shame there are not 4 medals for all these women.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I am not a skater myself. I am curious if 2A problem has something to do with long legs. Radionova is not good at it either, and Christina Gao...

I think long legs and knock-kneed skaters are not good with 2a. Mao, Yuna, Carolina all have long legs and good 2a but they all have legs that bow outwards. In contrast, Pogorilaya, Radionova, Gao, Gold (her 2a is inconsistent and not good technique either although it is big) all have long legs with knock-knees and their 2as are not very good/consistent. I also think 2a is one of the hardest jumps to maintain consistency with when you grow, because the center of gravity and weight and strength changes all come into play more when you are flinging yourself in the air forwards, as opposed to triple jumps when you take off backwards and the longer legs and added strength and muscle could help the jumps get better. I feel Gao's 2a was at it's worst the seasons she was growing a lot, but interestingly those were also the seasons she was doing 3f-3t consistently with good quality.

I think 2a is not a good jump for Pogo and she should work on the technique, but I am not too worried for now because last season she was usually landing and rotating it even with the technique not being so great. And even though her bio says she is the same height as last season, I think she did grow a few centimeters during the summer, at JW she and Julia were almost the exact same height and now Anna looks considerably taller https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd....0x720/1463246_322791444530572_930042542_n.jpg and there are pictures of her with Adelina and Elena (Ilynikh) who are about 163 or 164 cm and Anna looks about as tall. Her 3lz-3t I feel has gotten better this season, and actually I feel the same way about Radionova's, in general I think their triples all look stronger this season than last, it's just the 2a that is worse, so I think that the issue will get better once they get past the growing period. Elena is still a twig with a little girl's body, yes, but I feel like she has also grown a few cms recently and that has likely affected her 2a.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I don't dislike it, she has gorgeous hair, it just seems to flop around a lot as she skates. If that were me it would drive me nuts. I agree the ponytail fits well with the music and the style of the program.

there's at least one point in the program where she intentionally flips it... so I think the ponytail is a must have :laugh: I love her look, and it's better than her hair being completely loose, and it gives her a different look than the bun that she has for the LP.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Except Mao's 3A would never deserve -2. For a jump that is <, the range is -1 to -2, and -2 is only deserved with jumps that are close to <<. Which Mao's 3A was not.

Or has something else wrong with it.

As others have noted, if the call is <, the judges are supposed to subtract -1 or -2 from whatever GOE they would have given that jump without the underrotation. So if they found several things good about it aside from the underrotation, then +1-1 = 0 or +2-1 = +1 are valid scores.

If it WAS going to get called, then it definitely should NOT receive -GOE.

Double fail on the part of the judges. Par for the course.

If I understand what you're saying, then single fail for the tech panel + single fail for the judges = double fail overall, but not from any one official.

^ ^ What's "good" anyway...is there even a standard? ...

Well, there are general good qualities for all jumps (see the +GOE guidelines), e.g., good speed and clean edges in and out, good ice coverage, good height, well-organized air position. Delay starting the rotation is a positive point but uncommon for triples by women, and completing the rotation above the ice so there's no question about rotation is also valued.

For axel in particular the "step up" with the free leg is valued, and some amount of skid on the entry edge is considered a negative but acceptable within reason, without loss of alignment, since few skaters are able to achieve triple axel from a perfectly clean edge.

Would you call Patrick Chan's 3A technique good? Plushenko's air positions during the last OG left a lot to be desired, but it was crazy to see him adjust himself to land those things, so I would call his technique good.

I think Mao's triple axel technique is better than Patrick's, and if his' is gonna get ratified, then Mao's should be too.

Obviously full rotation is better technique than underrotation, and good technique contributes to full rotation. But so does body type. Often a man who jumps higher and has greater upper body strength to initiate the rotation (or a skinny girl who can rotate faster) can get away with less than perfect technique and still rotate a jump that a grown woman with curves can't achieve even with perfect technique.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
I am very :confused: about the reactions to Asada's 3axel downgrade. The cheat was clearly noticeable in real time, without the need for slo-mo, as the jump was hooked on the landing.

Asada has this slight delay on starting the rotation on her jumps which makes it very difficult for her to fully complete it.

I suspected that all four Asada's jumps were cheated, given the slightly hooked landings and the slight loss of flow on them and the slo-mo confirmed that. 3loop was cheated very slightly, 3flip and 2loop a little bit more. All clearly less than 1/4, which means no < but, following the deductions sheet, the judges should be substracting -1 from whatever base value they arrive at. I guess there is a very easy get out clause from that for them. They can't watch the jumps in slo-mo and they can't be 100% sure whether a jump is cheated without it, so they choose to give the skater the benefit of the doubt. *yawn*

Looking at Asada's GOEs, the judges also missed the break between the steps and the 3flip and the travelling on the second position (which wasn't very well balanced either) in the flying camel.

For the record, I don't have the aim of knocking Asada down. The judging at the (J)GPF has been pretty poor so far, and you could find omissions and questionable judgements for most of the skaters.

For this particular event, the 'blind as a bat prize' should be awarded to the judging panel for Wagner's flying sit which was considerably off-centred throughout (not just at one point but for most of the duration of the spin) and where none of the positions were particularly well extended. +1s and +2s. Right.

My biggest peeve at the moment is the judges giving 'automatic' +1s and +2s for a layback just because a biellmann was executed, regardless of the actual quality of the entire element. It makes me wish biellmanns were banned because the absolutely last thing I want to see is a skater straining to pull their leg up and then just about maintaining the rotation. There are very few skaters capable of executing a biellmann with ease and flow maintaining the rotation speed. The 'maintain your dignity' prize goes to Serafima Sakhanovich for showing a beautifully extended, extremely fast layback spin, executed straight from connecting footwork, without a pointless and strained biellmann.
 

aragray

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
I'm so proud of Adelina! She's improved so much since her days in the junior ranks. Looking forward to her free skate, it's sooo much more intricate than her LP at Junior Worlds 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeXXrxjNXtA

and does anyone know why Mao always changes her costume mid season? [i.e. short & long program dresses and the scheherazade costume] Like has she ever commented on this? I hope Mao goes back to her other lilac dress for the Olympics, I'm not a fan of the one she wore for this competition but either way i'm so glad she doesn't wear the over the boot tights anymore! :laugh: the way she interprets Rachmaninoff is just so beautiful i can't get over it! ganbatte mao :love:
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I am very :confused: about the reactions to Asada's 3axel downgrade. The cheat was clearly noticeable in real time, without the need for slo-mo, as the jump was hooked on the landing.

Asada has this slight delay on starting the rotation on her jumps which makes it very difficult for her to fully complete it.

I suspected that all four Asada's jumps were cheated, given the slightly hooked landings and the slight loss of flow on them and the slo-mo confirmed that. 3loop was cheated very slightly, 3flip and 2loop a little bit more. All clearly less than 1/4, which means no < but, following the deductions sheet, the judges should be substracting -1 from whatever base value they arrive at. I guess there is a very easy get out clause from that for them. They can't watch the jumps in slo-mo and they can't be 100% sure whether a jump is cheated without it, so they choose to give the skater the benefit of the doubt. *yawn*

Looking at Asada's GOEs, the judges also missed the break between the steps and the 3flip and the travelling on the second position (which wasn't very well balanced either) in the flying camel.

For the record, I don't have the aim of knocking Asada down. The judging at the (J)GPF has been pretty poor so far, and you could find omissions and questionable judgements for most of the skaters.

For this particular event, the 'blind as a bat prize' should be awarded to the judging panel for Wagner's flying sit which was considerably off-centred throughout (not just at one point but for most of the duration of the spin) and where none of the positions were particularly well extended. +1s and +2s. Right.

My biggest peeve at the moment is the judges giving 'automatic' +1s and +2s for a layback just because a biellmann was executed, regardless of the actual quality of the entire element. It makes me wish biellmanns were banned because the absolutely last thing I want to see is a skater straining to pull their leg up and then just about maintaining the rotation. There are very few skaters capable of executing a biellmann with ease and flow maintaining the rotation speed. The 'maintain your dignity' prize goes to Serafima Sakhanovich for showing a beautifully extended, extremely fast layback spin, executed straight from connecting footwork, without a pointless and strained biellmann.
Completely agree (especially about Wagner and Sakhanovich)! This should be posted in the spins thread...
 

zamboni step

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Completely agree (especially about Wagner and Sakhanovich)! This should be posted in the spins thread...

I mentioned the biellmann=+GOE trend in the spin thread, giving the example of Alena Leonova receiving +1s all over the place for her average layback, and was told that Leonova has a strong layback worthy of +2s or even +3s....

On another note that 3A was viably short on rotation, I was annoyed the second she landed it as it's one foot, damn. Also I was told the deduction for lack of rotation without a < sign is if you believe it should have received a < and it didn't. The same way you can deduct for an unclear edge the takeoff without an e sign. It either deserves one or it doesn't, and if you believe it was incorrectly not given one, you deduct.
 

elee63

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 22, 2013
Mao was great!! Her best ever SP performance to date!

That technician has no soul. He's someone's well-paid pet.

OR just one of the few who aren't :p Your pick. I always found it hilarious that he would always be so harsh on Mao. At least it's nice to see that all those people with Japanese conspiracy theories don't have an answer for him...
 

elee63

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 22, 2013
Watching Mao's SP today got me speechless from satisfaction, and thank god I didn't cry (I'm at work!). Her reaction after the performance agrees with me :)

The 3A did look ur'ed, but quite smooth; therefore I agree with the judges with <, and I would've given +GOE had it not been for that (or +1 even with it with caffeins). For me, it was the first time I saw her get better and better as the program progressed, and most mature of her so far. I see pink roses blooming in the background whenever I replay this SP in my head (so embarrassing). Her combos were the least nervous I've seen from her, so I expect it to be beautiful with more refinement. She seemed perfectly engaged with the music after the second jump, probably due to no major errors to disturb her; shows how psyche affects artistry; even all other elements - jumps, spins - looked much more integrated with music.

I am really, really looking forward to the Olympics now! We can finally have some even rivalry!

* As for the Korean judge thing, don't expect any significant favours for Koreans from her.

Oh please, the TECHNICAL CONTROLLER was Amano. The assistent doesn't have much weight.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
and does anyone know why Mao always changes her costume mid season? [i.e. short & long program dresses and the scheherazade costume] Like has she ever commented on this? I hope Mao goes back to her other lilac dress for the Olympics, I'm not a fan of the one she wore for this competition but either way i'm so glad she doesn't wear the over the boot tights anymore!

I think some of the skaters are testing the waters during the season for their Olympic programs, Julia has changed costumes in her short program and has done 2 different hairstyles for her LP.
 
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