Senior Short Dance - GPF 2012-2014

flaneur · Dec 6, 2013

Just watched the V/M and D/W sd twice. By the eye test V/M should have won tonight. Their skate felt complete and nuanced-- it breathed, wasn't rushed and was really 'danced'. In comparison D/W, while having their trademark lightness and speed, was a tad shallow and stiff in their presentation -- at times it felt like a technical exercise in which they did each component but the components didn't really feel connected as a dance. And today their speed was borderline frenetic. This is why I am a bit confused that D/W won through their PCS. Looking through the protocols I have a suspicion that D/W may have gotten the win tonight based on their reputation this season of being the better team.

Anyhow, just calling a spade a spade. Glad the marks are still close. Hope both teams bring it for the fd.

elif · Dec 6, 2013

uncchristine99 said:
Comparison-wise, DW beat VM in only the first Finnstep pass and the lift, which I agree with on the lift. This is my question to you guys who are code experts... with the twizzle hitch from Charlie, how does a judge decide if that's a marked-down level or just a negative or lesser GOE? They had a lesser GOE than VM for this outing and rightly so but for those who say VM should be in the lead and by more because of the twizzle mistake, should DW have been given a level 3? I've never quite understood this part of the code and even across pairs and singles, how do you call something an underrotated 3A with negative GOE instead of downgrading to a 2A, etc.

First judges had to determine quality of twizzle. Then they can increase or reduce final GOE.

Reduce by:
Execution not simultaneous:
one Twizzle: 1 grade
two Twizzles: No higher than -1
Execution of Turn incorrect: (linked Three Turns, Pirouettes):
one Twizzle incorrect: No higher than 0
two or more Twizzles incorrect: No higher than -1
Generally more than two arm length between partners: 1 grade

Increase by:
Exit with running edge maintained (no immediate step down): 1 grade
Set of Sequential/Synchronized Twizzles reflect the character of the chosen dance: 1 grade
Fast rotation of Twizzles: 1 grade
Twizzles executed at great speed: 1 grade

I don't know about level but rules book says;

If a loss of control with additional support (touch down by free leg/foot and/or hand(s)) occurs after a Twizzle has commenced and the Twizzle continues after touchdown (without interruption), only the clean rotations before the touchdown shall be considered for Level.

If any part of any Twizzle becomes a Pirouette or checked Three Turns, its Level shall be reduced: by one Level if one or two of the four Twizzles be come Pirouettes or checked Three Turns; by two Levels if three or four of the four Twizzles become Pirouettes or checked Three Turns

dorispulaski · Dec 6, 2013

tulosai said:
How well they do the twizzles has almost nothing to do with the level on the twizzles, unfortunately. I can't explain as well as Doris, but the first criterion for levels is simply that the twizzles are at least x rotations (no matter how sloppy the rotations), and they you need a certain number of 'extras' such as difficult entrance, hands behind back, grabbing blade, etc to nail the levels further. Something being 'wonky' like on the first twizzle won't impact the levels unless, pretty much, they fail to get the right number of rotations, or they fail to execute one of the other things necessary as a skill to get the level. I hope this is sort of making sense?

This is right. Being out of synchronization should effect GOE, not level.
And, indeed, Tessa & Scott got a better grade on the twizzles and on the straight line step.

elif · Dec 6, 2013

Illegal Elements/Movements
Jumps (or throw jumps) of more than one (1) revolution or jumps of one (1) revolution skated at the same time by both partners.

I think Capellini/Lanotte got deduction for this.

http://youtu.be/v20vatta6xI?t=41s

caitie · Dec 6, 2013

flaneur said:
D/W, while having their trademark lightness and speed, was a tad shallow and stiff in their presentation -- at times it felt like a technical exercise in which they did each component but the components didn't really feel connected as a dance. And today their speed was borderline frenetic. This is why I am a bit confused that D/W won through their PCS. Looking through the protocols I have a suspicion that D/W may have gotten the win tonight based on their reputation this season of being the better team.

Anyhow, just calling a spade a spade. Glad the marks are still close. Hope both teams bring it for the fd.

Yeah, I mostly agree with this. I didn't think the elements didn't connect, but I do think they skated rather stiffly -- especially at first -- and this is a program that really must look effortless and float across the ice, we have to believe Meryl could have danced all night with Charlie, lol. I gather they heard Tessa and Scott's WR score and were unable to shake the pressure and instead were thinking through every element trying to hit every level and key point. I'm glad T/S bested them in the Performance PCS at least, but the Choreography score is the most interesting to me. It seems like the judges really like Meryl and Charlie's program, seemingly more than Scott and Tessa's since I can't imagine them skating it more perfectly whereas M/C have already performed this program better, even if this was their most technically proficient outing by the levels.

I love the DF lift as well, but I prefer the other one they started doing in Skate America. This one is such a crowd pleaser I know, but I really think the other one fit the music better.

Frenchie · Dec 6, 2013

elif said:
Illegal Elements/Movements
Jumps (or throw jumps) of more than one (1) revolution or jumps of one (1) revolution skated at the same time by both partners.

I think Capellini/Lanotte got deduction for this.

http://youtu.be/v20vatta6xI?t=41s

Thanks elif for offering an explanation for their -2 illegal element.
It would be quite an unsatisfactory explanation since C/L and their coaches should know what's ok and what's not.

V/M were really on fire. I love how I had that stupid geeky smile on my face after just a few seconds - love that slow start

I really don't understand why in ice dance of all competitions there is this RULE that one country has its number one team, and whatever the number 2 team does, they get held back. Weaver/Poje are not in 3rd place because they're canadian. And that's simply wrong, offensive. And pathetic.
I've never been a big fan of Bobrova/Soloviev (still, I liked last year's free), and despite really trying hard to enjoy them, I can't help but think they're not in the same league as ALL of the other couples in terms of PCS. They got almost 2 pts more in PCS than Weaver/Poje. I don't get it. Ilynikh/Katsalapov are way better imo and have a much bigger potential. Very unfortunate they've been branded russia's #2 pair, which brings us back to the whole "national #2 deduction". :disapp:
My ranking:
Virtue/Moir
Davis/White (still, a much better free so they'd probably still get the lead back in the end)
Weaver/Poje
Pechalat/Bourzat
Capellini/Lanotte
(...)
The guy who's driving the zamboni
(...)
Bobrova/Soloviev (Ilynikh/Katsalapov beat them as well, even in absentium)

demarinis5 · Dec 6, 2013

GF2445 said:
Yes. I noticed that too. Ususally in Japan, the crowds seem to have greater support of the Americans. I love how the Japanese call The United States, the USA.

Also, Meryl and Charlie have skated at NHK for the this year and last year so they might just have a larger fan base there in comparison to the Americans.

I don't know...Does anyone else have a good reason?

Yes and this is off topic. Meryl and Charlie are immensely popular in Japan because they are fabulous
skaters and another reason could be because Daisuke Takahashi (who is revered in Japan) has spoken many times
about his admiration for Meryl and Charlie's skating and especially Meryl. In an interview on a television show
after the NHK Trophy Dai and Mao were asked by the TV commentator to write down 3 wishes. One of Dai's wishes
was to be Meryl's partner. The commentator said you would like to be Meryl's ice dance partner and Dai said any type
of partner, then the commentator said you mean her life partner as well, Dai laughed and said he would be to
embarrassed for that. It is common knowledge with skating fans in Japan that Dai has a crush on Meryl.

Back on Topic: V/M and D/W were both amazing! Poor Anna and Luca. I hope they can recover in the FD.

elif · Dec 6, 2013

Frenchie said:
I've never been a big fan of Bobrova/Soloviev (still, I liked last year's free), and despite really trying hard to enjoy them, I can't help but think they're not in the same league as ALL of the other couples in terms of PCS. They got almost 2 pts more in PCS than Weaver/Poje. I don't get it. Ilynikh/Katsalapov are way better imo and have a much bigger potential. Very unfortunate they've been branded russia's #2 pair, which brings us back to the whole "national #2 deduction". :disapp:

I don't like Bobrova/Soloviev's free dance too but their short dance is not that bad. They are close to each other which is judges are looking especially in short dance.They are skating last one minute of the program with close dance holds and they are not losing speed. This is why their PCS is high. 7 out of 9 judges gave them 9.00 for skating skills.We have judges from USA, CAN, ITA and FRA. I love Ilinykh/Katsalapov but they are not using close dance holds.

WeakAnkles · Dec 6, 2013

demarinis5 said:
Yes and this is off topic. Meryl and Charlie are immensely popular in Japan because they are fabulous
skaters and another reason could be because Daisuke Takahashi (who is revered in Japan) has spoken many times
about his admiration for Meryl and Charlie's skating and especially Meryl. In an interview on a television show
after the NHK Trophy Dai and Mao were asked by the TV commentator to write down 3 wishes. One of Dai's wishes
was to be Meryl's partner. The commentator said you would like to be Meryl's ice dance partner and Dai said any type
of partner, then the commentator said you mean her life partner as well, Dai laughed and said he would be to
embarrassed for that. It is common knowledge with skating fans in Japan that Dai has a crush on Meryl.

Back on Topic: V/M and D/W were both amazing! Poor Anna and Luca. I hope they can recover in the FD.

Cute story but it does rather have a ring of "My girlfriend lives in Canada..." (You Avenue Q fans will know what I mean!)

dorispulaski · Dec 6, 2013

elif said:
Illegal Elements/Movements
Jumps (or throw jumps) of more than one (1) revolution or jumps of one (1) revolution skated at the same time by both partners.

I think Capellini/Lanotte got deduction for this.

http://youtu.be/v20vatta6xI?t=41s

I think you're right. They didn't seem to come off the ice at that point in the program at NHK.

ice coverage · Dec 6, 2013

GF2445 said:
Yes. I noticed that too. Ususally in Japan, the crowds seem to have greater support of the Americans. I love how the Japanese call The United States, the USA.

Also, Meryl and Charlie have skated at NHK for the this year and last year so they might just have a larger fan base there in comparison to the Americans.

I don't know...Does anyone else have a good reason?

demarinis5 said:
... It is common knowledge with skating fans in Japan that Dai has a crush on Meryl.

Other reasons:

(1) Davis/White have competed at NHK Trophy a total of five times (incl. four since 2009), compared to one time for Virtue/Moir (in 2007).

http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00006260.htm
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00006989.htm

(2) Another possible factor:

Davis/White have skated in Mao Asada's "The Ice" shows in Japan, although not this year. (And in addition to the tour for paying audiences, the cast of The Ice, incl. D/W, also has given special performances for those affected by the tsunami.) I believe that "The Ice" also is broadcast on Japanese television.

Virtue/Moir have a history of skating in Yuna Kim's shows in Korea (and the U.S.), although their schedules have not permitted them to so for the last couple of years.

(3) And in all seriousness, I wonder whether the ShibSibs videos also have helped Japanese fans get to know D/W better.

D/W have appeared in several ShibSibs videos, b/c the Americans are together a lot for adventures away from home. They have been fellow cast members not only for The Ice, but also for the skating/gymnastics show in the U.S., etc. Plus the Americans all go to U.S. Figure Skating's Champs Camp.

No offense to Davis, but White esp. is a ham

with a big laugh :laugh:

-- he's hard to miss in the videos.

AFAIK, Virtue/Moir have never been in a ShibSibs video. The Shibs have not made one showcasing Team Canton training at home. And competitive events on the road are not conducive to shooting their videos.

jan · Dec 6, 2013

[I completely agree! V/m should have won. Their PCS should have been at least 2 points higher.

QUOTE=flaneur;801149]Just watched the V/M and D/W sd twice. By the eye test V/M should have won tonight. Their skate felt complete and nuanced-- it breathed, wasn't rushed and was really 'danced'. In comparison D/W, while having their trademark lightness and speed, was a tad shallow and stiff in their presentation -- at times it felt like a technical exercise in which they did each component but the components didn't really feel connected as a dance. And today their speed was borderline frenetic. This is why I am a bit confused that D/W won through their PCS. Looking through the protocols I have a suspicion that D/W may have gotten the win tonight based on their reputation this season of being the better team.

Anyhow, just calling a spade a spade. Glad the marks are still close. Hope both teams bring it for the fd.[/QUOTE]

Tonichelle · Dec 6, 2013

I'm okay with either of the top two being in first. I find the final part of V/M's program awkward (the cheek to cheek is too litteral and [pardon the pun] cheeky). The final pose of V/M's program still bugs me.

I enjoy the ending of D/W's SD much more, but overall the program just seems to be a step back maturity wise. I don't know why, I just feel that way.

I think of all the SD's shown here my favorites are Anna and Luca's and Kaitlyn and Andrew's.

I think P/B's could be better with more polish, but it just seems so... not ready for this part of the season. It worries me.

:disapp: there's nothing about B/S that I really like... this SD did nothing for me.

blackswanphoto · Dec 6, 2013

Did V/M change any of the music cuts or choreography of their long program?

NoNameFace · Dec 6, 2013

blackswanphoto said:
Did V/M change any of the music cuts or choreography of their long program?

I'm wondering about it too and I'd die for any info from practice sessions how did it look...

flaneur · Dec 6, 2013

Tonichelle said:
I think of all the SD's shown here my favorites are Anna and Luca's and Kaitlyn and Andrew's.

Maybe you just have a serious love of 42nd Street?

rosacotton · Dec 6, 2013

D/W and V/M are practically in a tie. Only halfway through the competition, but this seems to confirm my hunch since the season started that it will be a close race for the OGM. I prefer V/M's SD to D/W's, yet think the Americans have the stronger FS. Will be exciting to see what goes down tomorrow. Hoping both teams give their best!

But I am mostly relieved that B/S are so far behind the top two teams. That is as it should be.

And I hope Anna and Luca have a better skate in the free! Shame as their short dance is one of my favorite programs this year.

Tonichelle · Dec 6, 2013

flaneur said:
Maybe you just have a serious love of 42nd Street?

hmmmm, possible, though I don't think so... I definitely like the arrangement of C/L's music more than W/P's... but I'm not a big fan of the musical.

Mao88 · Dec 7, 2013

SHORT DANCE - VIDEOS (By Starting Order) - Updated

1. Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE (ITA) Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

2. Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE (CAN) Short Dance, 2nd copy, 3rd Copy

3. Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT (FRA) Short Dance, 2nd copy, 3rd Copy

4. Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV (RUS) Short Dance, 2nd copy, 3rd Copy

5. Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR (CAN) Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy

6. Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE (USA) Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy

RESULT

Overall Result, Segment Result, Protocols

elee63 · Dec 7, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
why ? are V/M some sort of untouchable gods like Patrick Chan ?

and we all know how that saying was overturned. who knew a score of 99+ was even possible...

Senior Short Dance - GPF 2012-2014

flaneur

elif

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

elif

caitie

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

elif

WeakAnkles

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

jan

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

blackswanphoto

NoNameFace

GS given name - Beatrice

flaneur

rosacotton

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Mao88

elee63

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