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Thread: Men LP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    This is a joke, right? I can't see how anyone would compare Kovtun to Lambiel, or refer to the latter as a stiff power skater - unless it was meant as a parody.
    ^There's your opinion, obviously the Russians and judges who awarded him Gold and Silver this pas 2 GPs thought differently. I can't believe the Russian skater who is so strongly backed by his Fed isn't being taken seriously, when Russia is a powerhouse and Olympics will be in Sochi.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    ^There's your opinion, obviously the Russians and judges who awarded him Gold and Silver this pas 2 GPs thought differently. I can't believe the Russian skater who is so strongly backed by his Fed isn't being taken seriously, when Russia is a powerhouse and Olympics will be in Sochi.
    Given high scores ≠ similar to Lambiel. Shockingly, many skaters achieve good results even though they skate nothing like Lambiel!

    Kovtun has yet to win a senior GP.

    My conclusion is that you are either trolling or doing a parody account. I'll leave you to it.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Given high scores ≠ similar to Lambiel. Shockingly, many skaters achieve good results even though they skate nothing like Lambiel!

    Kovtun has yet to win a senior GP.

    My conclusion is that you are either trolling or doing a parody account. I'll leave you to it.
    I have a different thinking from you = I'm a troll???

    Please let's be decent and courteous here, if you have a good counter argument, eg. how to beat TES of clean 4S-3T,4T,3A in SP, then use it. Insulting others just doesn't make your point stronger.

    Actually, I'm done here. I'm clear in listing the points for NOT discounting Kovtun - it's not Chan vs Yuzuru only, Russia, the host, should not be counted out and they are smart in playing their cards. I don't see how a possible 4-5quads should be dismissed in pointing the way to Sochi.

  4. #214
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    does Chan even have a chance against Hanyu or Fernandez with their quads? Look at the pcs for Hanyu there is a huge noticeable difference and not good in respect to his edges and transitions from Chan but you do not see the definition in scores. Hanyu is cute but he doesn't have the drama of interpretagtion or performance of Dai Kovtun looks like he is ready if Plushy can't skate; medalling is unlikely but he obviously is top 5 material right now or at least top ten. Hanyu appears to have secured himself a ticket to Sochi now. Dai as well probably so the battle is for no. 3 in Japan. I don't think the competition missed Evan Lysacek; seems like men's skating has moved on - he doesn't or didn't have hte quad and didn't have the pcs/style/skating skills of Dai or Chan or even hanyu or fernandez.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    I did say Chan would have the better chance of OGM of the two (Chan/Hanyu) if he skates reasonably well and delivers his quads. He has already improved his lines, posture, carriage through training. For any good Russian skater with ballet/dance training, every limb/body movement is precisely shaped, visibly controlled and buttressed by muscles and aesthetically counted. That's a form of rigor and maturity. Unfortunately, Javi looks to be in poor shape. For Sochi, whoever's delivering great quads should be noticed. Kovtun will roll out his CoC program with eye-popping jumps or better, it's his current training, I'm sure. 4T was easy for him but he popped it at CoC, and fell on steps, so he does have brittle nerves. The TES base value, though, will be intimidating to many skaters. If he can't get it right by Feb, Plushenko will likely take the Sochi spot.
    Isn't the problem with Chan is he cna't compete with the big guns technically he needs another quad and improve his spin levels?

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Isn't the problem with Chan is he cna't compete with the big guns technically he needs another quad and improve his spin levels?

    I think at his best, he can beat the field, as his PCS will make up for his small TES shortfall.The problem is his nerves..."skycamgate" come on ... He has his reputation and his stature, plus he is the traditional skater that Russians like. The only other skater with his stature is Plushenko, but...this GPF shows that Chan is vulnerable to home advantage upset of younger arrivals if he loses his marbles. Japan does it, why wouldn't Russia? Hanyu has his big jumps but if he were to be pitted against a clean Kovtun, the Russians will not hesitate, they will grab their window of opportunity if it cracks open a little, which Fed wouldn't? However, it is also likely for Hanyu to be the one standing when the others falter, he has the mental strength. I can't see great TES credibility from the rest of the skaters. I suspect Plushenko will participate in the team event, gets injured, then Kovtun gets to skate in the Men's. If Hanyu's perceived as the stronger threat after winning GPF,they will most likely send Kovtun as Hanyu's jumps and TES would beat Plushenko's. It will be a battle of TES (quads) then, a very Russian attitude declared and embodied by Plushenko himself and they can't back down from that.

    Mao will very likely win OGM in that scenario.

    This GPF result is very interesting in influencing the strategy for Sochi...and the Russians are chess masters.

  7. #217
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    Watching the men's LPs again on NBC made me think the following:

    Oda's costume needs to be changed immediately. Chan is so cold - there is nothing subtle about his interpretation it is just not there or faked in between jumps. And add to that while he lands lots of jumps, including quads, he does not execute them that well. People love to point out issues with Dai's jumping technique but his jumps always seem huge and technically amazing. Kovtun will be great one day, Max has only half of his talent and charm. Machida should do well after Oda, Taka and Kozuka retire. I appreciate his classic style and technique but I hope Oda gets that third spot. That would be amazing. Hanyu's SP was great but I am not sure that it was almost 100 points great. Hanyu's LP makes me feel confused. I love the softness with the crazy difficult jumps but is he Romeo? Is he just skating to the music because it is nice or because he is telling a story? In any case, he deserved to win both SP and FP.

  8. #218
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    Did you notice in the post-interview coverage on NBC that Chan said he "let Hanyu win"? and then went on to say he (Chan) would be winning the Olympic gold. Not a crack of a smile in either comment either so he was serious....and as always, so arrogant.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by taikwan View Post
    Did you notice in the post-interview coverage on NBC that Chan said he "let Hanyu win"? and then went on to say he (Chan) would be winning the Olympic gold. Not a crack of a smile in either comment either so he was serious....and as always, so arrogant.
    People do not know, at least on this site, that Patrick spent more than four weeks to a month, in Japan, during late summer of 2012, working out with the Japanese men's elite group.I dare say the Japanese know his technique, practices, from inside out since then. Analysis and video motion studies went full galore, with the people, most well known for learning/copying excellence from all over the world, Nikon descended from Leica, Honda from BMC mini minor etc.etc........
    In that premises, no wonder they have caught up with him.
    And in that light, Patrick's comment that he 'let' Hanyu beat him, is not far off, for he let his tutors in Japanese skating learned his skills inside out, since last summer, in Japan.
    For how much return? God knows!

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by tung View Post
    People do not know, at least on this site, that Patrick spent more than four weeks to a month, in Japan, during late summer of 2012, working out with the Japanese men's elite group.I dare say the Japanese know his technique, practices, from inside out since then. Analysis and video motion studies went full galore, with the people, most well known for learning/copying excellence from all over the world, Nikon descended from Leica, Honda from BMC mini minor etc.etc........
    In that premises, no wonder they have caught up with him.
    And in that light, Patrick's comment that he 'let' Hanyu beat him, is not far off, for he let his tutors in Japanese skating learned his skills inside out, since last summer, in Japan.
    For how much return? God knows!
    That's admirable of Chan.

    Let's out take that video out of context. Chan obviously was responding a question which "questioned" his aspiration of the Olympic gold medal and he was a bit exasperated. This is something he threw back to the interviewer rather than a dig at Hanyu. Of course he could be more careful with his words nut no need to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by tung View Post
    People do not know, at least on this site, that Patrick spent more than four weeks to a month, in Japan, during late summer of 2012, working out with the Japanese men's elite group.
    I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe. Proof, please.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalina View Post
    I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe. Proof, please.
    Pictures of Patrick with the Japanese team were circulated on web site, FSU, which I visited last year.
    This was after his Korean show at Seoul, and after his vacation in Singapore etc. with relatives, and on his way back to Canada.

    I was surprised at the time, with his long duration stay with the Japanese team too. It did not mean anything then.
    But looking back, with the vast improvement of the Japanese men, since then, his visit and stay with them helps lots, to bring them up to par with his skill level, catching up, and improving, thus exceeding the level Patrick possesses at the moment.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by tung View Post
    Pictures of Patrick with the Japanese team were circulated on web site, FSU, which I visited last year.
    This was after his Korean show at Seoul, and after his vacation in Singapore etc. with relatives, and on his way back to Canada.

    I was surprised at the time, with his long duration stay with the Japanese team too. It did not mean anything then.
    But looking back, with the vast improvement of the Japanese men, since then, his visit and stay with them helps lots, to bring them up to par with his skill level, catching up, and improving, thus exceeding the level Patrick possesses at the moment.
    I don't have any idea about the rest of your story, but none of the Japanese men have exceeded the level of skating skills that Patrick has at the moment.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    I don't have any idea about the rest of your story, but none of the Japanese men have exceeded the level of skating skills that Patrick has at the moment.
    GPF FS resulted in both getting over the centennial mark, but even with Hanyu falling in the quad, he got a couple of points better than Patrick from the judges. To me, that means both are at par with their excellent best, personal best, but with Hanyu getting better marks from the judges, overall.
    Patrick may be better, must be better, at some sectors of the ISU marking system, but overall, he was beaten by the Japanese skater.
    In the after competition show, Patrick's performance again shows his excellence, I saw him in high definition TV, here in Mainland China; and his expression of gratitude, to the local crowd, afterwards, in the closepup shot, tells people of the appreciable respect he has for the Japanese fans and skating in Fukuoku.

    He had mentioned previously the main competitor to him would come from the Japanese skaters.

    Don't forget, Patrick stopped over at Japan, after flying over from Canada, in the start of his Asian tour, in 2012 April, after winning his second GPF, by the skin of his teeth, in southern France, the eventual extended stay there a month later, was a second visit to Japan, within a couple of months.

  15. #225
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    Chan was also invited to skate at the 2012 Japanese Nationals as a guest in the exhibition. I cannot recall any other non-Japanese man been given the same honor since men's skating became cash cow for JSF.

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