Men LP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

chloepoco · Dec 6, 2013

spikydurian said:
I posted in another thread that pangtongfan should now bestow the honour of 'falling and winning' and 'Name-flation' to Hanyu if PTF has a fair mind. Hey PTF, you know it takes a lot of skills to fall and win so really, this is no small honour. Unfortunately, Chiddy now has to step down from the throne. Are you going to crown Hanyu or will you still insist that Chan is falling and winning?

Anyway, Hanyu is undoubtedly the best now. I think he will mow Daisuke and the rest of the guys at Japan Nationals and ready to take over as the Rock Prince (hey skyfall, you should be pleased).

I am soooo :disapp: for Patrick.

I really don't understand all this hostility, for lack of a better word, against Hanyu winning here. He clearly was the best out of all the skaters--whether this took place in Japan or not.

David21 · Dec 6, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Actually when Chan falls or makes errors he does not get personal best PCS; his PCS scores drop (e.g. sub-90 at 2013 Worlds) which is deserved. Haters just complain that his PCS doesnt take a severe enough hit.... and then when he skates clean they find another reason to whine about his PCS being too high because his skating is emotionless, etc.

Yeah, those evil haters

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
By comparison a skater like Hanyu or Lipnitskaia falling and getting a personal best PCS, several points above their previous personal best PCS at that, is wrong.

Perhaps some of Chan's PCS marks have been not as lessened as he deserved, but that's nothing compared to Hanyu exceeding his PCS personal best in a FS by 5 points for a skate with a bad fall and Lipnitskaia receiving a PCS personal best for a 3-triple FS with a fall, or B/S getting a personal best FD score with a fall...those will go down as the worst PCS inflation and home favouritism since the IJS was created.

Hanyu had one bad fall today but otherwise he was great. I don't see why this would be so wrong to give him a personal best PCS score when he has improved otherwise. I also don't remember him skating clean free skates very often so that one mistake today maybe should not be the deciding factor. If you could an example from the past where Hanyu skated totally clean, performaed very well with a great program and still got lowballed on PCS then your point would be valid.

pangtongfan · Dec 6, 2013

The comparision by Chan fans to some of the past competitions Chan won is a joke. Over the whole competition Chan had 2 huge errors in the short and Hanyu only 1 in the long. Thus Hanyu won a competition skating cleaner than Chan, regardless which one thinks should have won the LP. Now compare that to many instances Chan had many more errors than opponents, and quality opponents in some cases who had great skating skills, interpretation (arguably superior to Chan's especialy in instances he had alot of mistakes), quads, quality spins as well. Yet the judges still held Chan up as the easy winner by such ridiculous things as giving Takahashi, a stunning artistic skater, closer PCS to AMODIO than to a faulty Chan in the LP at the 2012 Worlds. Yes I know Takahashi had problems in the SP there and Takahashi merely gotten equal PCS to Chan in the LP there (and he sure as heck deserved atleast that) he would have won overall. Yet the scary thing is that doesnt even make the top 5 in Chan's most controversial wins ever probably.

This has been a great season for judging in mens though. Chan has deserved her scores and victories (for once) and once again he received the score and result that was fair and appropriate (yes you could make a case for Chan possibly winning the LP, and I have no problem with those who do that, but certainly not the overall event), even if this time it was not 1st place. Nobody sane and rational minded would dispute that in mens singles this has been the best year of judging since 2007-2008 and continues to be so.

YesWay · Dec 6, 2013

Mrs. P said:
I'm absolutely thrilled. I really enjoyed his programs this season, especially his SP, and really want him to be on the Olympic Team.

I'm sort of torn because I do like Machida also, but I'm feeling sentimental toward Nobu and love the fact he is making such a great comeback after a some injury struggles in the last two years.

I heard that not only did Oda have to return from a family holiday (ie. unprepared) to substitute Takahashi at the GPF... his skates were broken, and new ones only arrived 4 days before. They were stiff and painful, he had limited flexibility at his ankles. Notice how he limped off the ice after the FS and took his skates off immediately?

If all that's true, his performance was all the more impressive!

Have to hope he can wear in the new skates before Nationals though...

jenaj · Dec 6, 2013

KwanIsALegand said:
The ice is slippery isn't it?! I cannot believe someone unseated Chan, shocking. This is good for Hanyu, good for skating and even good for Chan. I think it is going to be blood and guts in Sochi, the pressure will be intense. Well, may the best skater win, it will be exciting for us to watch for sure!

Maybe I'm not remembering right, but didn't Takahashi win over Chan at last year's GPF?

Skater Boy · Dec 6, 2013

the overall results here were correct though Chan deserved higher pcs or rather Hanyu deserved perhaps lower pcs in both programs. Sorry, Hanyu's edges, skating skills, trnasitions are not as good as Chan's even with chan erros in fact his leve is below Dai's as well. He is good but not that good. Chan is paying the price for not developing another quad (salchow) as well as his spins. if Dai or hanyu skating clean they will win it all. Fernandez is also in the wings. I wonder what is ogoing on with Joubert and Reynolds. Reynolds could be outside of the top ten. And who is France's no. 1?

Tonichelle · Dec 6, 2013

Am I the only one that worries that skating a free program is dangerous for Hanyu's health? if he skates well he always looks like he's close to death at the end. (yes I'm exaggerating just a bit, but still)...

he does seem a bit clunky to me in the LP... Chan seemed a bit better in his LP... neither one blew me away... the men's LPs are all kinda blah.

MK's Winter · Dec 6, 2013

Tonichelle said:
Am I the only one that worries that skating a free program is dangerous for Hanyu's health? if he skates well he always looks like he's close to death at the end. (yes I'm exaggerating just a bit, but still)...

he does seem a bit clunky to me in the LP... Chan seemed a bit better in his LP... neither one blew me away... the men's LPs are all kinda blah.

I agree. At the end of the program I thought he was hyperventilating. I watched his performance a few times and I am amazed at how packed the second half of his program is. He made it through and skated well but he is going to have to work on stamina for Sochi.... I would like him to eat something too, he is too thin.

msteach3 · Dec 6, 2013

chloepoco said:
I really don't understand all this hostility, for lack of a better word, against Hanyu winning here. He clearly was the best out of all the skaters--whether this took place in Japan or not.

Thank you for stating what I thought was obvious. Couldn't agree more. Chan was sub par. Yuzu was the best he's been all season and skated his heart out in both programs. Even after the fall on the sal (which no one else attempted) he didn't let down once until the final pose. The kid is an amazing athlete and talent. And yes, the Olympics just got a lot more interesting.

Tonichelle · Dec 6, 2013

MK's Winter said:
I agree. At the end of the program I thought he was hyperventilating. I watched his performance a few times and I am amazed at how packed the second half of his program is. He made it through and skated well but he is going to have to work on stamina for Sochi.... I would like him to eat something too, he is too thin.

Isn't he asthmatic? he seems to really suffer from it, I'm not sure building more stamina is possible for him.

yude · Dec 6, 2013

I haven't read the whole thread but,

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20131206-00000010-spnavi-spo

Yuzuru thinks that he happened to win this competition. About high PCS in FP, he said he felt that he couldn't do well in that department although he tried to face the judges and appeal to them during the program but his skating didn't catch up. He thinks he received big score in FP because of good SP. "GPF is GPF, Sochi is Sochi, Nationals is Nationals, all are going to be different."

(Asked about the reaction in K&C because he didn't look like a winner) "I didn't think that score to come, honestly it was different (he means that there is a gap between his evaluation and the judges')." He said that he will try to get the similar score in other competitions, too.

Better or correction of translation are welcome :eek:

: This guy is smart and knows the sport. He is down to earth so please don't worry :biggrin:

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2013/12/06/kiji/K20131206007151040.html

Patrick said that he had pain in his knee(s?) and is planning to go to the Nationals after taking some rest. And he also mentioned of the pressure the Japanese skaters have for the selection of the Olympics.

MK's Winter · Dec 6, 2013

Tonichelle said:
Isn't he asthmatic? he seems to really suffer from it, I'm not sure building more stamina is possible for him.

I am not positive but I think so. I don't think I've seen him use an inhaler though.

Becki · Dec 6, 2013

MK's Winter said:
I agree. At the end of the program I thought he was hyperventilating. I watched his performance a few times and I am amazed at how packed the second half of his program is. He made it through and skated well but he is going to have to work on stamina for Sochi.... I would like him to eat something too, he is too thin.

Hanyu is naturally very thin, I don't think eating more will really add much to his skinny frame.

flaneur · Dec 6, 2013

yude said:
Yuzuru thinks that he happened to win this competition. About high PCS in FP, he said he felt that he couldn't do well in that department although he tried to face the judges and appeal to them during the program but his skating didn't catch up. He thinks he received big score in FP because of good SP. "GPF is GPF, Sochi is Sochi, Nationals is Nationals, all are going to be different."

(Asked about the reaction in K&C because he didn't look like a winner) "I didn't think that score to come, honestly it was different (he means that there is a gap between his evaluation and the judges')." He said that he will try to get the similar score in other competitions, too.
http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2013/12/06/kiji/K20131206007151040.html

So I guess even Hanyu agrees with a lot of posters on this board that his PCS in the fd was higher than it should have been.

Anyhow. Congrats to Hanyu. This is probably his best birthday present ever!

spikydurian · Dec 6, 2013

chloepoco said:
I really don't understand all this hostility, for lack of a better word, against Hanyu winning here. He clearly was the best out of all the skaters--whether this took place in Japan or not.

No choloepoco, just trying to prove a point. I have nothing against Hanyu. In fact, I congratulated him in another forum over the GPF win, and I have posted over many threads that he's a highly talented skater set to dominate for his age group. This recent win proved that his peers like Brown, Farris, Han Yan, Kovtun, Gachinski won't be able to touch him for at least the next two years unless they make leaps and bounds themselves. And I honestly think Hanyu will beat Daisuke easily with his GPF skates. YOu don't think so? He beat Patrick too.

Hostility? I think as a Chan fan that word is best understood by us. I have been waiting for someone to fall and win to prove that those arguments against Patrick for falling and winning is invalid. (Unfortunately it has to be Hanyu because he is good enough to do that .. really Hanyu fans should be pleased because not all skaters can fall and win). Now I get my chance so for those who argue that someone who fall should not win, do you agree with that?

Some argued that Patrick got high marks because of home cooking and favouritism, now do you think Hanyu got high marks because of home cooking and favouritism? I personally don't think so. He happens to be good enough to beat Patrick at GPF. Now don't tell me you don't agree with me?

flaneur · Dec 6, 2013

Also congrats to Oda! I wonder what Oda will need to do at Nationals to get the third spot to Sochi (I'm guessing Hanyu and Takahashi are in).

qwertyskates · Dec 7, 2013

Have refrained from commenting but of course ALL the skaters received home advantage to varying degrees, including Hanyu here and Patrick in Canada. It doesn't mean it'sright, it means that's the way it is. (edit: actually France's recent TEB showed much less favoritism to their team)

Hanyu is a great jumper, but his posture, carriage and SS are worse than Patrick's, hope he improves in these areas, develop more defined and refined lines.

Patrick is fighting in this LP, the ease and confidence left him, unfortunately. He is still a great skater regardless.

Despite the errors, I enjoyed Maxim Kovtun's LP the most because of the precision, definition and pure elegance of his movement - none of the others could match his presence and SS.

Blades of Passion · Dec 7, 2013

qwertyskates said:
Despite the errors, I enjoyed Maxim Kovtun's LP the most because of the precision, definition and pure elegance of his movement - none of the others could match his presence and SS.

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090804000748/wikiality/images/6/6a/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

flaneur · Dec 7, 2013

blades of passion said:
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090804000748/wikiality/images/6/6a/notsureifserious.jpg

lol

qwertyskates · Dec 7, 2013

Blades of Passion said:
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090804000748/wikiality/images/6/6a/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

Yes! He's going to be the next Plushenko. You heard it here first. :biggrin:

With the exception of Chan, the others, though technically excellent, skated more like boys than men, whereas Kovtun and even Pitkeev in Junior come across with a maturity and sophistication.

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