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Thread: Men LP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

  1. #181
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    I like him, but I don't see how you can proclaim his skating skills as the best of this event...

  2. #182
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    I'd discount Kovtun's SP here, but at CoC the steps were impressive even though he slipped. I know you propose to cut them, but steps really show the strength of the SS.

  3. #183
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Erm.

    Kovtun's SS are definitly one of his weaknesses. He worked a lot on his IN and PE (IMO, at least), and his programs suit him, but his SS are...by far the weakest in this event.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Erm.

    Kovtun's SS are definitly one of his weaknesses. He worked a lot on his IN and PE (IMO, at least), and his programs suit him, but his SS are...by far the weakest in this event.
    Not this year, for sure, not since Zagreb. Disagreement = Trolling?

  5. #185
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    SS are pretty objective, really...

  6. #186
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    Ack, double post...please delete.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    SS are pretty objective, really...
    Hmm...judges at recent events seem to disagree, he won Silver (I think underscored at CoC), Gold (Rostelecom), 5th here but I think both he and Lipnitskaia were a bit underscored in LP. He used to skate poorly, carelessly, clumsily but I'm impressed by the speed and distance of his Sochi trajectory. Personally, I'm not fond of him, but I'm not letting the past derision (truly ugly jumps before but now, quads & combination jumps are his strength....) influence me - respect is due for his maturity and composed recovery from the SP. He could medal in (home advantage) Sochi if he keeps at this rate, I won't underestimate or grudge him for it.

    Chan is still easily unnerved and Hanyu has poor carriage, posture, extension which he must quickly correct in order to impress in Russia. Perfect SP and FS from Kovtun (if Plushenko isn't showing up) would be quite the threat.

  8. #188
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates
    Hmm...judges at recent events seem to disagree, he won Silver (I think underscored at CoC), Gold (Rostelecom), 5th here but I think both he and Lipnitskaia were a bit underscored in LP. He used to skate poorly but I'm impressed by the speed and distance of his Sochi trajectory. Personally, I'm not fond of him, but I'm not letting the past derision (truly ugly jumps before but now, it's his strength....) influence me - respect is due for his maturity and composed recovery from the SP. He could medal in Sochi if he keeps at this rate, I won't underestimate him.
    Oh, I agree that he deserves respect for coming back after his SP, and for the overall improvement, no doubt. I just think you singled out what are actually more his weaknesses (SS, and his upper body moves are still stiff and unbalanced to me) then his strengths. His SS have become better, but that doesn't mean he's on the same level as the other guys here.

  9. #189
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    For steps and moves, he's not as good as Hanyu in terms of flow, speed, but power, quickness, extension, posture, carriage, I think he's better. Spins are Hanyu's, but turns..Kovtun's SP just wow. Russians seem to prefer a tighter, controlled, defined, skate.

  10. #190
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    I'm a Kovtun fan but unless he pulls out all the stops and all the other guys falter, he is not a threat. You do realize he lost by 60 points, right?

    He's a threat the way Reynolds and Ten is a "threat". Although he'll get home cooked PCS in Sochi (if he goes) so I suppose he might be slightly more of a threat than those two.

  11. #191
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    Ha, I'm NOT a Kovtun fan, but I think if he nails all his quad-sal-triples & other combos while Hanyu falls on his quad sals, the Sochi advantage will carry him home, so to speak. It's not his PCS but TES, I know, it sounds sacrilegious after Hanyu's scores here, but he is no shirk in chalking those up either. Consider the speed of his trajectory, this year alone,- within a few months, he's already a different skater. The old Kovtun surfaced for a bit in the kiss and cry after SP, but he pulled together to deliver a very decent LP. Anyways, it makes Sochi interesting, we'll see.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Ha, I'm NOT a Kovtun fan, but I think if he nails all his quad-sal-triples & other combos while Hanyu falls on his quad sals, the Sochi advantage will carry him home, so to speak. It's not his PCS but TES, I know, it sounds sacrilegious after Hanyu's scores here, but he is no shirk in chalking those up either. Consider the speed of his trajectory, this year alone,- within a few months, he's already a different skater. The old Kovtun surfaced for a bit in the kiss and cry after SP, but he pulled together to deliver a very decent LP. Anyways, it makes Sochi interesting, we'll see.
    I would hope that if Maxim does go all out and lands all his quads and people like Chan/Hanyu make errors that Maxim wins.

    I just don't think Kovtun has developed that kind of consistency yet. To be fair, he's improved tremendously over the past year, and is only one of a handful of guys to do 2 quads in an SP. He very well could be the first guy to do 5 quads in a competition.

  13. #193
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    Yes, I think he would go for at least what he tried in the CoC/CoR SP and LP, quad-sal-triple, quad sal, quad toe, 3axel-double, etc., improve his spins, change his costume, he's the traditional type of skater that the Russians love. Advantage too for Patrick, but I'm sure there'll be a sky cam there! Kovtun is one of those few who can pack a lot into the 2nd half too, eg Casablanca, so you're right, 5 quads is not out of the question. But then Plush might just show up.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Yes, I think he would go for at least what he tried in the CoC/CoR SP and LP, quad-sal-triple, quad sal, quad toe, 3axel-double, etc., improve his spins, change his costume, he's the traditional type of skater that the Russians love. Advantage too for Patrick, but I'm sure there'll be a sky cam there! Kovtun is one of those few who can pack a lot into the 2nd half too, eg Casablanca, so you're right, 5 quads is not out of the question. But then Plush might just show up.
    Yeah, 164 is actually pretty good, considering he tripled a quad and neglected to do a 3rd combo (e.g. 2A-3T at the end). His spins could indeed use higher levels. To me his SP is his shining point - reminds me of Lambiel at some points and excellent interpretation and steps. His SS are not nearly as good as you make them out to be, but he still has years of experience to accumulate.

  15. #195
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates
    Ha, I'm NOT a Kovtun fan, but I think if he nails all his quad-sal-triples & other combos while Hanyu falls on his quad sals, the Sochi advantage will carry him home, so to speak. It's not his PCS but TES, I know, it sounds sacrilegious after Hanyu's scores here, but he is no shirk in chalking those up either.
    Kovtuns BV at CoC was 74.01. If you add 10 points for a 4T instead of the 2T, you're at 84+. That's still about 4 points behind Hanyus GPF BV of 88+, and if his only mistake is a fall on the 4S, Kovtun very likely won't even win the TES. The fall GOE would cancel out the BV advantage, but then the fight would be about +GOE on the other elements, and I guess Hanyu would get a little better GOE, even in Russia. If Hanyu makes more mistakes/worse one like poping the 4S, than it's another story...

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