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Thread: Men LP - 2013-14 Grand Prix Final

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    I think competitors need to adjust themselves to the demands of Sochi by skating more "Russian" (I don't mean music or style , but what they prize) to win.
    I doubt that Chan would have to skate more "Russian" to win the Olympics. His TES with 2 quads is already huge. Unless, you are talking about the other potential medal winners of which only Javi is attempting 3 quads and that hasn't been working out that great for him this season. Even Kovtun's been only rotating 2 quads per FS during the GP.

  2. #212
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    MEN'S FREE SKATE - VIDEOS (By Starting Order) - Updated

    1. Tatsuki MACHIDA (JPN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy

    2. Maxim KOVTUN (RUS) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

    3. Han YAN (CHN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

    4. Nobunari ODA (JPN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

    5. Patrick CHAN (CAN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy

    6. Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, Interview

    Medal Ceremony

    RESULT

    Overall Result, Segment Result, Protocols

  3. #213
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    Canadian Skater Guy:

    I suppose you are a Patrick Chan fan, so am I, from across the ocean, overseas Canadian that is eh?
    One thing the GPF showed is that Canada is top of the world, in men's figure skating discipline. Reason(s)?
    Patrick Chan's performance is reason No.1
    Yuzuru's coach, Brian Orser, is reason No.2.

    It is very smart of Japan to send their best talent, young and full of future possibibilties, to the best coach around, who formerly coached Kim, too, until fired by her, for private reaons, but not before Brian helped her to her first Olympic gold, in Vancouver.

    Whatever the outcome between the young Japanese talent, Yuzuru and 'veteran' Patrick Chan, in the coming Sochii games, the results will be a full compliment on the excellence of Canadian figure skating tradition, for both competitors are 'Canadian' , one born with it, trained with its system, and the other, although born overseas, with different culture, is nurtured and trained by a top Canadian coach.

    Mind you, Japan is a great skating nation, in many ways greater than Canada. Japan is not snow bound 8 months of the year, its people are not as athletic as Canadians do. But they do have a great skating population, greater than Canada's figure skating crowd, thinned by the NHL prospective parents' efforts.
    My kid's coach took her best pupils to a Japanese meet at Kyoto, last year, and the ISU event pulled in more than 600 competitors!
    Perhaps, the ISI commercial rink setup is hurting N American figure skating, and not promoting serious competitions like the all ISU Japan Skating Union is doing.

    One final word, the Japanese people, genetically, was proven by some experts, to be extremely similar to the people across the Eastern Sea, the Chinese people at Fujian Province, they are both short in stature, and proportioned similarly. So is Patrick Chan, a genetic native of Southern China, ancestral county/village in TaiShan, for his dad, and the adjacent county of XinHui, for his mom, just west of the Pearl River estaury, in GuangDong Province, . Well, they are all short (in western standards) and extremely agile and athletic.

    It is no accident then, that the two, similar in so many ways fight for the Olympic Gold in coming February.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Yes, there is a glimpse of Lambiel there too, especially in the steps sequence, as CanadianSkaterGuy mentioned. Both of them are stiff, power skaters with packed 2nd half. Kovtun or his team is very smart to choose a staccato SP program with great use of toepicks to emphasize his musicality, but it is also apparent that some ballet training has helped Kovtun in maintaining a defined but softer carriage than Lambiel but stronger movements, stamina and better extension than Hanyu. Add in the big elements (4S-3T) and you have a huge package there.
    This is a joke, right? I can't see how anyone would compare Kovtun to Lambiel, or refer to the latter as a stiff power skater - unless it was meant as a parody.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquishyDumpling View Post
    I doubt that Chan would have to skate more "Russian" to win the Olympics. His TES with 2 quads is already huge. Unless, you are talking about the other potential medal winners of which only Javi is attempting 3 quads and that hasn't been working out that great for him this season. Even Kovtun's been only rotating 2 quads per FS during the GP.
    I did say Chan would have the better chance of OGM of the two (Chan/Hanyu) if he skates reasonably well and delivers his quads. He has already improved his lines, posture, carriage through training. For any good Russian skater with ballet/dance training, every limb/body movement is precisely shaped, visibly controlled and buttressed by muscles and aesthetically counted. That's a form of rigor and maturity. Unfortunately, Javi looks to be in poor shape. For Sochi, whoever's delivering great quads should be noticed. Kovtun will roll out his CoC program with eye-popping jumps or better, it's his current training, I'm sure. 4T was easy for him but he popped it at CoC, and fell on steps, so he does have brittle nerves. The TES base value, though, will be intimidating to many skaters. If he can't get it right by Feb, Plushenko will likely take the Sochi spot.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    This is a joke, right? I can't see how anyone would compare Kovtun to Lambiel, or refer to the latter as a stiff power skater - unless it was meant as a parody.
    ^There's your opinion, obviously the Russians and judges who awarded him Gold and Silver this pas 2 GPs thought differently. I can't believe the Russian skater who is so strongly backed by his Fed isn't being taken seriously, when Russia is a powerhouse and Olympics will be in Sochi.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    ^There's your opinion, obviously the Russians and judges who awarded him Gold and Silver this pas 2 GPs thought differently. I can't believe the Russian skater who is so strongly backed by his Fed isn't being taken seriously, when Russia is a powerhouse and Olympics will be in Sochi.
    Given high scores ≠ similar to Lambiel. Shockingly, many skaters achieve good results even though they skate nothing like Lambiel!

    Kovtun has yet to win a senior GP.

    My conclusion is that you are either trolling or doing a parody account. I'll leave you to it.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Given high scores ≠ similar to Lambiel. Shockingly, many skaters achieve good results even though they skate nothing like Lambiel!

    Kovtun has yet to win a senior GP.

    My conclusion is that you are either trolling or doing a parody account. I'll leave you to it.
    I have a different thinking from you = I'm a troll???

    Please let's be decent and courteous here, if you have a good counter argument, eg. how to beat TES of clean 4S-3T,4T,3A in SP, then use it. Insulting others just doesn't make your point stronger.

    Actually, I'm done here. I'm clear in listing the points for NOT discounting Kovtun - it's not Chan vs Yuzuru only, Russia, the host, should not be counted out and they are smart in playing their cards. I don't see how a possible 4-5quads should be dismissed in pointing the way to Sochi.

  9. #219
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    does Chan even have a chance against Hanyu or Fernandez with their quads? Look at the pcs for Hanyu there is a huge noticeable difference and not good in respect to his edges and transitions from Chan but you do not see the definition in scores. Hanyu is cute but he doesn't have the drama of interpretagtion or performance of Dai Kovtun looks like he is ready if Plushy can't skate; medalling is unlikely but he obviously is top 5 material right now or at least top ten. Hanyu appears to have secured himself a ticket to Sochi now. Dai as well probably so the battle is for no. 3 in Japan. I don't think the competition missed Evan Lysacek; seems like men's skating has moved on - he doesn't or didn't have hte quad and didn't have the pcs/style/skating skills of Dai or Chan or even hanyu or fernandez.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    I did say Chan would have the better chance of OGM of the two (Chan/Hanyu) if he skates reasonably well and delivers his quads. He has already improved his lines, posture, carriage through training. For any good Russian skater with ballet/dance training, every limb/body movement is precisely shaped, visibly controlled and buttressed by muscles and aesthetically counted. That's a form of rigor and maturity. Unfortunately, Javi looks to be in poor shape. For Sochi, whoever's delivering great quads should be noticed. Kovtun will roll out his CoC program with eye-popping jumps or better, it's his current training, I'm sure. 4T was easy for him but he popped it at CoC, and fell on steps, so he does have brittle nerves. The TES base value, though, will be intimidating to many skaters. If he can't get it right by Feb, Plushenko will likely take the Sochi spot.
    Isn't the problem with Chan is he cna't compete with the big guns technically he needs another quad and improve his spin levels?

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Isn't the problem with Chan is he cna't compete with the big guns technically he needs another quad and improve his spin levels?

    I think at his best, he can beat the field, as his PCS will make up for his small TES shortfall.The problem is his nerves..."skycamgate" come on ... He has his reputation and his stature, plus he is the traditional skater that Russians like. The only other skater with his stature is Plushenko, but...this GPF shows that Chan is vulnerable to home advantage upset of younger arrivals if he loses his marbles. Japan does it, why wouldn't Russia? Hanyu has his big jumps but if he were to be pitted against a clean Kovtun, the Russians will not hesitate, they will grab their window of opportunity if it cracks open a little, which Fed wouldn't? However, it is also likely for Hanyu to be the one standing when the others falter, he has the mental strength. I can't see great TES credibility from the rest of the skaters. I suspect Plushenko will participate in the team event, gets injured, then Kovtun gets to skate in the Men's. If Hanyu's perceived as the stronger threat after winning GPF,they will most likely send Kovtun as Hanyu's jumps and TES would beat Plushenko's. It will be a battle of TES (quads) then, a very Russian attitude declared and embodied by Plushenko himself and they can't back down from that.

    Mao will very likely win OGM in that scenario.

    This GPF result is very interesting in influencing the strategy for Sochi...and the Russians are chess masters.

  12. #222
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    Watching the men's LPs again on NBC made me think the following:

    Oda's costume needs to be changed immediately. Chan is so cold - there is nothing subtle about his interpretation it is just not there or faked in between jumps. And add to that while he lands lots of jumps, including quads, he does not execute them that well. People love to point out issues with Dai's jumping technique but his jumps always seem huge and technically amazing. Kovtun will be great one day, Max has only half of his talent and charm. Machida should do well after Oda, Taka and Kozuka retire. I appreciate his classic style and technique but I hope Oda gets that third spot. That would be amazing. Hanyu's SP was great but I am not sure that it was almost 100 points great. Hanyu's LP makes me feel confused. I love the softness with the crazy difficult jumps but is he Romeo? Is he just skating to the music because it is nice or because he is telling a story? In any case, he deserved to win both SP and FP.

  13. #223
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    Did you notice in the post-interview coverage on NBC that Chan said he "let Hanyu win"? and then went on to say he (Chan) would be winning the Olympic gold. Not a crack of a smile in either comment either so he was serious....and as always, so arrogant.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by taikwan View Post
    Did you notice in the post-interview coverage on NBC that Chan said he "let Hanyu win"? and then went on to say he (Chan) would be winning the Olympic gold. Not a crack of a smile in either comment either so he was serious....and as always, so arrogant.
    People do not know, at least on this site, that Patrick spent more than four weeks to a month, in Japan, during late summer of 2012, working out with the Japanese men's elite group.I dare say the Japanese know his technique, practices, from inside out since then. Analysis and video motion studies went full galore, with the people, most well known for learning/copying excellence from all over the world, Nikon descended from Leica, Honda from BMC mini minor etc.etc........
    In that premises, no wonder they have caught up with him.
    And in that light, Patrick's comment that he 'let' Hanyu beat him, is not far off, for he let his tutors in Japanese skating learned his skills inside out, since last summer, in Japan.
    For how much return? God knows!

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by tung View Post
    People do not know, at least on this site, that Patrick spent more than four weeks to a month, in Japan, during late summer of 2012, working out with the Japanese men's elite group.I dare say the Japanese know his technique, practices, from inside out since then. Analysis and video motion studies went full galore, with the people, most well known for learning/copying excellence from all over the world, Nikon descended from Leica, Honda from BMC mini minor etc.etc........
    In that premises, no wonder they have caught up with him.
    And in that light, Patrick's comment that he 'let' Hanyu beat him, is not far off, for he let his tutors in Japanese skating learned his skills inside out, since last summer, in Japan.
    For how much return? God knows!
    That's admirable of Chan.

    Let's out take that video out of context. Chan obviously was responding a question which "questioned" his aspiration of the Olympic gold medal and he was a bit exasperated. This is something he threw back to the interviewer rather than a dig at Hanyu. Of course he could be more careful with his words nut no need to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

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