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Thread: What is the best strategy for amazing Asada to challenge incredible Kim at the Games?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    I just think its curious how she can get worse at it as time goes by. She's not old or physically incapable. It has to be a mental mistake with her approach.
    It's normal for skaters to have their jumps deteriorate when they get older--injuries, puberty, pressure. All those jumps take a heavy physical toll on one's body.

    Just ask everyone from Daisuke Takahashi, Stephane Lambiel, Michelle Kwan, Alexei Yagudin, Evgeni Plushenko, Tara Lipinski.....

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    I just think its curious how she can get worse at it as time goes by. She's not old or physically incapable. It has to be a mental mistake with her approach.
    Tara Lipinski ground her body down by age 15 doing her triple-triples. "Old" is a relative term.

  3. #123
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    Anyone remember that movie called TinCup? It is a movie about golf. There's a really memorable scene where Costner's character (a sort of aged reckless formal golf prodigy on his last tour) was competing at US open finally making his great come back, but he being one of those stubborn reckless characters who is never able to resist a bold dare.

    Always have that infuriating 'I can make that shot, I can do it' even when no one believe him, and often paid the price with losing the entire competition. Anyway at that final 18th hole at US Open, he had the choice of playing safe and force a play off for a par, or taking the risk to go one shot ahead. Being who he is - he took the latter option, unfortunately the Golf Gods keep blew the ball back to the water to heart breaking results, repeatedly one after another. He was stubborn and he repeat his mistake again and again... to the point, he might even been disqualified (no more golf balls left) to his team's mortifying reaction. However on his 12th shot, like a miracle, the balls actually not only clears the water and actually hit into the 'hole - in one' to the crowd's utter amazement and wild applause.

    The moral of the story is, does't matter who won or who lost, it is what one wants to be remembered. Who knows.... Mao might just hit her 3 x 3A, and if she does, she will be remembered as her thing that no one can take away from her, not even a Gold. They can't help being who they are. Sure she can be more smarter about a strategy, but it is not the silver, bronze she is after, it is the gold, so how can anyone fault her self believe when it is the only way she knows how? It is her gold to gain - the federation/isu pretty much has done all they can to support her including up the value for 3A, 3A as a single jump in SP, reduce the GOEs by 30% for every other triples jump except the 3A, as well lessen the penalty for UR, give her more home events advantages than any competitive skater this season, the rest is up to her now.

  4. #124
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    Mao has been doing 3A's ever since she started skating competitively. Long before she probably heard about Yuna. She was inspired by Midori Ito and wanted to be a skater like her idol. She first attempted two 3A's at junior worlds back in 2006 long before Yuna's dominance happened. I've heard she wanted to continue with it but Arutunian held her back. TAT was more supportive, so she added another 3A. This choice probably led to her detriment. I don't know why people think her 3A back in 2009-2010 was better in terms of quality. They appeared strained and had almost no flow on the landing. Now, her 3As appear more effortless and light.

  5. #125
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    Mao's best strategy is to not fall apart like she did today during her long program. While I love her footwork sequence, her jump layout is, to be frank, NOT wise. When she lands her triple axel, it's lovely, but it is not a consistent jump for her. When she pops it or falls on it, the rest of her program noticeably suffers. You can just sense her tension if things don't go well from the get-go, and it negatively impacts her overall performance. It would be a lot of wiser for Mao to just stick one 3A in the long program instead of trying to be ultra amazing by attempting two. I know it looks great when she gets both of them done cleanly, but it almost never happens, and even when she landed both of them cleanly in Vancouver, she still didn't win the gold medal (I know, she botched a few of her other jumps). Anyway, I feel like Mao is simply overestimating her technical ability and needs to pare down the difficulty and concentrate on making the rest of her program as beautiful as it can be.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I don't know why people think her 3A back in 2009-2010 was better in terms of quality.
    The first one she did on the Vancouver FS was absolutely tight and cracking. Compared to this season, now she wobbles all over and cannot land the jump. There's no "wow" factor in the revolutions like that one I saw from Vancouver.

    People may disagree with me, but I feel like Mao has never been at peace with her career, and Yuna achieved that. Not just because Yuna won the OGM last time and Mao didn't, because for Yuna it came before then. From 2008, when Mao had been better than Yuna for years, and Yuna was often injured and had to train in a foreign country, whatever difficulties she had, she seemed to just make peace with herself and her career really blossomed after that. For Mao, she was always #1 of her age for so long, then when Yuna passed her, I don't think she took it well. I don't think she's ever been at peace since that time. Disagree if you want, but it just feels like her mindset is off-balance and rather than make peace with herself and develop her own artistry and persona, all she's tried to do for the last 5 years is score more points than Yuna. I think it's a mistake and unfortunate for her and her fans.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Her 2A-3T consistently gets UR calls.
    No it doesn't. She has had it ratified every single time internationally from 2013 Worlds forwards.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    People may disagree with me, but I feel like Mao has never been at peace with her career, and Yuna achieved that. Not just because Yuna won the OGM last time and Mao didn't, because for Yuna it came before then. From 2008, when Mao had been better than Yuna for years, and Yuna was often injured and had to train in a foreign country, whatever difficulties she had, she seemed to just make peace with herself and her career really blossomed after that. For Mao, she was always #1 of her age for so long, then when Yuna passed her, I don't think she took it well. I don't think she's ever been at peace since that time. Disagree if you want, but it just feels like her mindset is off-balance and rather than make peace with herself and develop her own artistry and persona, all she's tried to do for the last 5 years is score more points than Yuna. I think it's a mistake and unfortunate for her and her fans.
    You seem so invested in the idea that Mao is some broken girl who can't get over the fact that her rival passed her. In 2008, she was upgrading her programs and fixing her Lutz edge despite beating Yuna at Worlds (with the charmingly-dubbed "sliding zero Axel" to boot). She lost ground and got passed by Yuna in 2009 because she started losing half her jumps (Lutz and 3-3 being the first to go), not because Yuna reached enlightenment and became some kind of skating bodhisattva. When you're losing your jumps, I doubt you'd be "at peace" - you'd most likely be trying to regain your technique.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    The first one she did on the Vancouver FS was absolutely tight and cracking. Compared to this season, now she wobbles all over and cannot land the jump. There's no "wow" factor in the revolutions like that one I saw from Vancouver.

    People may disagree with me, but I feel like Mao has never been at peace with her career, and Yuna achieved that. Not just because Yuna won the OGM last time and Mao didn't, because for Yuna it came before then. From 2008, when Mao had been better than Yuna for years, and Yuna was often injured and had to train in a foreign country, whatever difficulties she had, she seemed to just make peace with herself and her career really blossomed after that. For Mao, she was always #1 of her age for so long, then when Yuna passed her, I don't think she took it well. I don't think she's ever been at peace since that time. Disagree if you want, but it just feels like her mindset is off-balance and rather than make peace with herself and develop her own artistry and persona, all she's tried to do for the last 5 years is score more points than Yuna. I think it's a mistake and unfortunate for her and her fans.
    Lol on what basis do you make this assumptions? Mao has been through so many personal struggles these last five years. It's simply insulting for you to summarize someone's career like that, especially when your reasons are totally baseless.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    The first one she did on the Vancouver FS was absolutely tight and cracking. Compared to this season, now she wobbles all over and cannot land the jump. There's no "wow" factor in the revolutions like that one I saw from Vancouver.

    People may disagree with me, but I feel like Mao has never been at peace with her career, and Yuna achieved that. Not just because Yuna won the OGM last time and Mao didn't, because for Yuna it came before then. From 2008, when Mao had been better than Yuna for years, and Yuna was often injured and had to train in a foreign country, whatever difficulties she had, she seemed to just make peace with herself and her career really blossomed after that. For Mao, she was always #1 of her age for so long, then when Yuna passed her, I don't think she took it well. I don't think she's ever been at peace since that time. Disagree if you want, but it just feels like her mindset is off-balance and rather than make peace with herself and develop her own artistry and persona, all she's tried to do for the last 5 years is score more points than Yuna. I think it's a mistake and unfortunate for her and her fans.
    Your attempts at armchair psychology reminds me of the criticisms of Mao a few years ago, when people were criticizing Mao for wanting to stay and train in Japan instead training abroad with Artunian in California or Tarasova in Russia. People were calling Mao a spoiled little girl who couldn't tough it out and train in a foreign country like Yu-Na, along with making other completely specious psychiatric diagnoses about her mindset and character. Then these people ended up with a giant egg on their faces, because it turned out that Mao wanted to stay in Japan because her mother was dying.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    Your attempts at armchair psychology reminds me of the criticisms of Mao a few years ago, when people were criticizing Mao for wanting to stay and train in Japan instead training abroad with Artunian in California or Tarasova in Russia. People were calling Mao a spoiled little girl who couldn't tough it out and train in a foreign country like Yu-Na, along with making other completely specious psychiatric diagnoses about her mindset and character. Then these people ended up with a giant egg on their faces, because it turned out that Mao wanted to stay in Japan because her mother was dying.
    Off-topic. But, I am just curious. IIRC from Japanese media, Mao's mom was diagnosed of cancer in 2011. Perhaps, she was not in good health already, but I don't think she was dying then.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Lol on what basis do you make this assumptions?
    I said it's personal opinion. There are no facts needed for opinions. Look at her on the podium in Vancouver. She won silver, she was not happy. That's the personality she has because she's very talented. That's not a knock on her, I kind of admire that determination. Nevertheless, it's important to find peace with oneself. I don't get the feeling like Mao ever found peace with her skating or her career. Maybe there are various reasons for it. That doesn't mean I said anything bad about her or talked about her dying mother. Some of you can be pretty extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    not because Yuna reached enlightenment and became some kind of skating bodhisattva
    I get you are going for hyperbole, but there's some truth to this. Phil Jackson, the most successful basketball coach in NBA history, would always stress zen teachings with athletes like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. He was even able to keep Dennis Rodman's head on straight enough to win championships. Sports psychologists are en vogue now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
    Off-topic. But, I am just curious. IIRC from Japanese media, Mao's mom was diagnosed of cancer in 2011. Perhaps, she was not in good health already, but I don't think she was dying then.
    According to Rafael Arutunian, Mao's mom was diagnosed in the winter of 2007-08. That's why she didn't go back to Lake Arrowhead to train and it was ultimately why they split up.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    I said it's personal opinion. There are no facts needed for opinions. Look at her on the podium in Vancouver. She won silver, she was not happy. That's the personality she has because she's very talented. That's not a knock on her, I kind of admire that determination. Nevertheless, it's important to find peace with oneself. I don't get the feeling like Mao ever found peace with her skating or her career. Maybe there are various reasons for it. That doesn't mean I said anything bad about her or talked about her dying mother. Some of you can be pretty extreme.
    It's because you made a pretty extreme analysis of Mao's personality and situation despite not even caring to base it on facts. Um, if you're talking about podium expressions. Yuna didn't appear all that happy when she won silver in Worlds 2011 either. One can also interpret that in many ways depending on personal opinions.

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