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Thread: What is the best strategy for amazing Asada to challenge incredible Kim at the Games?

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Yuna didn't appear all that happy when she won silver in Worlds 2011 either. One can also interpret that in many ways depending on personal opinions.
    She wasn't happy. Pretty sure everyone believes she didn't want to be there. Maybe she felt like she was letting down the PC bid by losing. Who knows? People get unhappy about things, that's part of life. It doesn't mean it's wrong to bring it up. Just not talking about outside factors or pretending they don't exist doesn't make it better, only makes it worse.

    Yuna and her mom converted to Catholicism in 2008, about the same time she went from the bottom of her career and wanting to quit to when she started her ascension. Coincidence? No way. I'm Christian, but I don't think it takes a Christian to realize that finding inner peace and happiness can turn people's lives around.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    It's because you made a pretty extreme analysis of Mao's personality and situation despite not even caring to base it on facts. Um, if you're talking about podium expressions. Yuna didn't appear all that happy when she won silver in Worlds 2011 either. One can also interpret that in many ways depending on personal opinions.
    But Yuna was crying because she had endured so much hardship to get back on the podium! She didn't crack a smile during her Bulletproof EX because she was in pain (or high on painkillers depending on whom you ask)! Obviously Mao is different because she just wants to win; no, it couldn't be that she was also disappointed about missing 2 jumps.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
    Off-topic. But, I am just curious. IIRC from Japanese media, Mao's mom was diagnosed of cancer in 2011. Perhaps, she was not in good health already, but I don't think she was dying then.
    No, I believe I read somewhere that she was diagnosed several years before that. They just kept it out of the media.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    Your attempts at armchair psychology reminds me of the criticisms of Mao a few years ago, when people were criticizing Mao for wanting to stay and train in Japan instead training abroad with Artunian in California or Tarasova in Russia. People were calling Mao a spoiled little girl who couldn't tough it out and train in a foreign country like Yu-Na, along with making other completely specious psychiatric diagnoses about her mindset and character. Then these people ended up with a giant egg on their faces, because it turned out that Mao wanted to stay in Japan because her mother was dying.
    Well, I didn't think Asada's coaching system was wise. Not because Asada should have stuck it out in a foreign country, but because Mao had a coach who lived thousands of miles away.

    I thought Asada should have gotten a Japanese coach a lot sooner than she did.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I mostly agree but I also think Yu Na is something that was hard for Mao to accept, even as early as 2006 when she first began challenging her. I saw her live when she won the 2005 World Juniors and people were raving about how she was the most talented girl that age ever, and how she was going to be the best skater ever someday. Then someone who is the same age as her comes along and starts challenging and beating her, and by the time of the fall 2007 Grand Prix final Mao could do her full difficulty and win the LP by only 1 point (and losing the overall event after both had poor short programs) to this skater doing far less difficulty and having a fall in her program. I think by now Mao has come to accept Kim and her rivalry with her as what it is, but I think even moreso in the early years Kim and what she represented for her was difficult to accept, given how she looked to be the superstar who would dominate skating on her own for years to come when she first emerged. I think she is even less bothered by Kim in 2009-2013 when Kim was completely dominating her then than she was in 2006-2007 when she was merely challenging her as she is an adult and has had enough time to digest the reality that things arent what they looked like they would be in 2005. I dont think now she looks at Kim beyond what she is, a big obstacle she has to try and beat to win a major title, but in the early years I think Kim`s emergence and rise was really something that was hard for her to accept.
    I think its a bit ridiculous to attempt to around into someone's mindset.

    I remember reading a post from one of Asada's fans who said years ago well before Kim made into seniors they asked Asada who she thought would be her biggest rival, and Asada named Kim.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the dynamic changed between the two when Kim started beating her, but I don't think a skater of Asada's caliber who is use to competition thinks she'll never get competition.

  6. #141
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    Didn't Kim also list Mao as a motivation early in her career? Someone that pushed her to do better. I also read before she wasn't happy being the underdog and hampered by injuries early on. I think it was mutual early in their careers. But in recent years, especially after 2010. I feel neither are that focused on each other. It's fanwars and media more than anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I am sure she expected competition but I think she thought her competition would be skaters much older than her, and eventually skaters much younger. I dont think she ever imagined someday she would be the 2nd best skater born in 1990, and that for a period of time even a clean skate could not control her own destiny vs another skater born in 1990 anymore. I could be wrong, but I sensed increasing tension between them in 2006-2007 and actually more than there was in later years when Kim was in fact more dominant over Mao, but they seemed more friendly and compassionate towards the other. So I think both are over that stage, but initially it was hard for Mao especialy to accept.
    In 2007, Kim and Asada appeared on a Japanese show together, and after 2007 Worlds (I think) Asada actually offered to show Kim around Tokyo. I think it was the 2008-09 season when relations might have chilled; that was the season where the practice obstruction claims started.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I am sure she expected competition but I think she thought her competition would be skaters much older than her, and eventually skaters much younger. I dont think she ever imagined someday she would be the 2nd best skater born in 1990, and that for a period of time even a clean skate could not control her own destiny vs another skater born in 1990 anymore. I could be wrong, but I sensed increasing tension between them in 2006-2007 and actually more than there was in later years when Kim was in fact more dominant over Mao, but they seemed more friendly and compassionate towards the other. So I think both are over that stage, but initially it was hard for Mao especialy to accept.

    It is kind of similar to how I sense Zhang felt about Nagasu`s (a skater born within about a month of her, similar to Mao and Yu Na) emergence when both were junior, when at the time Zhang was supposed to be the next sensation of the sport. I remember Nagasu beating her at the Junior Nationals being a HUGE story in the skating World, and Zhang`s reactions when she beat a clean Nagasu back to win the World Juniors later that year.
    I think as the Olympics grew nearer and with all of the Olympic pressure it was going to be difficult for either girl to be best friends with their biggest rival.

    But once again, I'm telling you I read at least one interview of Asada when she was younger, when she specifically said surely Kim would turn out better than her older competitors, and be her biggest challenger. I think it was back in the 2006 Olympic season.
    Kim was impressive as a junior. Even back then she had these amazing jumps.

    Kim shot up to the top of the sport extremely quickly. I mean she won the grand prix senior final her first year as a Senior.

  9. #144
    The Comeback Kid Minze2001's Avatar
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    Mao has two struggles as a skater #1 losing her mom and losing her jumps. @Ven. Read some of your idols interviews, she is classy, humble and compassionate as her fan your comments are neither

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I think as the Olympics grew nearer and with all of the Olympic pressure it was going to be difficult for either girl to be best friends with their biggest rival.

    But once again, I'm telling you I read at least one interview of Asada when she was younger, when she specifically said surely Kim would turn out better than her older competitors, and be her biggest challenger. I think it was back in the 2006 Olympic season.
    Kim was impressive as a junior. Even back then she had these amazing jumps.

    Kim shot up to the top of the sport extremely quickly. I mean she won the grand prix senior final her first year as a Senior.
    Well, she was already going 1-2 with Mao in the junior ranks before the 2006-2007 season. They both shot up pretty quickly--Mao even more so, since she won the 2005 GPF against the Olympic favorites!

  11. #146
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    Um...I feel most competitors are just friendly. It's pretty hard to be friends when you speak different languages and live in different countries, and just see each other at competitions. Skaters on same team can become good friends. The Japanese skaters seem like friends. They cheer for each other and hang out during off season. On the other hand, Michelle was probably not great friends with either Tara or Sasha.

    I don't feel there was much tension in 2007 to be honest. Mao was probably more bothered by the edge issues than anything else. And her 2007 free skate wasn't perfect by COP standards. She had minor deductions that added up while Kim's only mistake was a fall. For Mao, I feel personally, it's not really a single rival but the system that she has been trying to overcome for most of her career. I feel the system kinda makes skaters focus on perfecting their own scoring potential than focusing on their rivals because it's not 6.0 when everything is relative to what others put out. Now, it's more about strategy, how many points you can get, etc..

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Interesting. So what do you think created the changed relationship between them. The Olympics nearing.

    It is always funny to look at how the media potrays some of the relationships between key rivals. Slutskaya and Kwan were always potrayed as great friends, but Kwan in an interview last year didnt even mention Irina as someone she kept in touch with now that her post skating life is over. She even mentioned Sasha who often took pot shots at Kwan while they competed. I dont think Michelle and Irina were really as friendly as potrayed. Irina wasnt at Michelle`s very large wedding either.

    The same with the two Brians, where Brian Boitano admitted many years later they werent really friends at all, just friendly competitors, and complained about Orser`s dismissive views towards him (which I noticed in Orser`s book too) and the politics for Orser to win the Olympics in Canada he felt against him. They probably werent as close as potrayed either, but went along with the storyline for the medias sake. The Asada vs Kim rivalry is largely potrayed in a negative way by the media, but is probably not entirely true.
    The media need it a story for this quad and ran with it. I don't even think they think about each other that much. But one thing I heard about both girls is how nice they are. Also, unfortunately the ubers on the Internet have made the situation worst, by their incendiary comments. Furthermore, the story became more juicy when you considered the animosity between their countries.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    Mao has two struggles as a skater #1 losing her mom and losing her jumps. @Ven. Read some of your idols interviews, she is classy, humble and compassionate as her fan your comments are neither
    What did I say that was not classy or compassionate? I said it seems like she didn't find peace with her career. Whether because of her mom (someone else brought this up, not me) or because she lost in Vancouver or because aliens abducted her and made her skate backwards every night for 5 years, who knows. Feel free to agree or disagree, but what on earth is insulting about saying she might not have found peace on the ice in these years?

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Well, she was already going 1-2 with Mao in the junior ranks before the 2006-2007 season. They both shot up pretty quickly--Mao even more so, since she won the 2005 GPF against the Olympic favorites!
    I think Kim would have done well that season too, although she didn't have the eye popping triple axel to really show it off like Asada.

    Still I think it was clear Kim and Asada were going to dominate, most people predicted it.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    What did I say that was not classy or compassionate? I said it seems like she didn't find peace with her career. Whether because of her mom (someone else brought this up, not me) or because she lost in Vancouver or because aliens abducted her and made her skate backwards every night for 5 years, who knows. Feel free to agree or disagree, but what on earth is insulting about saying she might not have found peace on the ice in these years?
    Who are you to say Asada is or is not at peace with her career? Do you know her personally? I haven't seen anything or heard anything from Asada that makes me think Asada's not well adjusted. She seems like she's in a good place.

    If she's focused on the triple axels its because its her biggest weapon.

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