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Thread: How tired are you of footwork sequences that take 30+ seconds to complete?

  1. #31
    More or less: more is more sequinsgalore's Avatar
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    I'm tired of them too... Some rule changes I suggest:

    Step sequences: max 30 secs
    Spiral sequences: back in SP for ladies, 6 seconds spiral in total
    Choreo sequence: can be before steps in FS
    Pairs sbs spins: no levels. I'm tired of samey flying changefoot combination spins

    Modification:
    Spins: harder juding on GOE, more -GOE shoud be awarded to slow, labourous spins, so level advantage evens out

  2. #32
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David21 View Post
    The ways are the same as for any other spin...e.g. ladies could do start from backwards or do a change of edge during the layback spin, but since doing an ugly biellmann is easier, they are doing the biellmann.
    Backwards Layback is the most difficult spin in figure skating. Pretty much impossible to do it with great speed, centering, positioning, and difficult change of positions. A change of foot Layback with a backwards entrance would actually be easier (although it's worth more points), because then you can at least switch momentum to forward position. That too is very difficult, although I actually wish Jason Brown would train it. He could probably learn to do a Level 4 change of foot Layback with good GOE (backwards entrance into catch-foot position, change foot to sideways position, then a clear increase of speed in the regular layback position), which would give him highest base value ever for spins in a SP.

    Change of edge in a Layback is also very difficult to do in a controlled and good-looking manner.

    Like I said in my other post, "free leg and free foot parallel to the ice and back well arched" and "both arms held behind and back well arched" should count as difficult variations for the Layback.

  3. #33
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    I love Brian Orser's straight steps for his '88 Olympic sp- it was fast, brilliant, superbly executed, went perfectly with the music, and didn't take up any chunk of the program at all:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSCr-A8T5qQ#t=135
    Wish to see more like that.

  4. #34
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    Best step sequence/footwork ever! Trust me! It is great!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMwXYdkSK4g#t=222

    I love her!

  5. #35
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    I feel like watching the spiral sequence for EVERY skater was worse that any laborious step sequence. Honestly, it takes OUT the wow factor, having to watch it over and over and over and over... and over again.

  6. #36
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    ^ That's because the CoP spiral sequence rules weren't good enough. Skaters were forced to hold positions for too long and do the same moves. Plus, weak positions were getting rewarded as level features, such as grabbing the blade but not not actually having it above head level and with a good arch in the back. If the rules were changed so that skaters actually had freedom to do all kinds of different spiral sequences, then I feel they would definitely be a welcome return to Ladies skating.

    Quote Originally Posted by mateusp1 View Post
    Best step sequence/footwork ever! Trust me! It is great!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMwXYdkSK4g#t=222

    I love her!
    Stephanie Rosenthal is everything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-2J_d9XksU

    Yeah, her technical content is poor (aside from the footwork), but in terms of Transitions/Performance/Choreography/Interpretation she is so far ahead. We need to see more skating like this.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    ^ That's because the CoP spiral sequence rules weren't good enough. Skaters were forced to hold positions for too long and do the same moves. Plus, weak positions were getting rewarded as level features, such as grabbing the blade but not not actually having it above head level and with a good arch in the back. If the rules were changed so that skaters actually had freedom to do all kinds of different spiral sequences, then I feel they would definitely be a welcome return to Ladies skating.



    Stephanie Rosenthal is everything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-2J_d9XksU

    Yeah, her technical content is poor (aside from the footwork), but in terms of Transitions/Performance/Choreography/Interpretation she is so far ahead. We need to see more skating like this.
    Uh... while Rosenthal was electric and had lovely movements, using her as a standard for the greatest footwork in recent times is ridiculous.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Yeah, her technical content is poor (aside from the footwork), but in terms of Transitions/Performance/Choreography/Interpretation she is so far ahead. We need to see more skating like this.
    I have to respectfully disagree. Her stroking looks labored and lots of skating on two feet with little transitions.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Mao's long step sequences this year are highlights of great skating to me. If step sequences are done well and hit the music, then fine, skate them out.
    Mao's step sequences have always been fantastic even in her worst programs. Her Masquerade LP was completely made by her steps. Her 2010-2011 Agony SP was awful in a way befitting its name; if I were to hazard a guess about its creation I would say Tarasova said "Zhanna, I'm heading out to lunch, choreograph the SP and I'll be back at 1 to do the step sequence!" to which Shanetta Folle replied "Yes, Gospozha" and slapped it together in 15 minutes. And even that program's steps were great. Maybe the one exception is the one from her bizarre Scheherazade SP, but I think there was no step sequence that could save that dreadful arrangement.

    However, I still agree with BoP about them often going on for too long. In her Rach 2 LP, the steps are (IMO) absolutely perfect until Mao has to loop the music of the recap an extra time in order to cram in more features for the coveted Level 4. I especially dislike that illusion - the last time it didn't look out of place in her steps was probably in her 2011 SP. I don't like the illusion when Mao does it, I don't like it when Yuna does it, I don't like it when anyone else does it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    ^ That's because the CoP spiral sequence rules weren't good enough. Skaters were forced to hold positions for too long and do the same moves. Plus, weak positions were getting rewarded as level features, such as grabbing the blade but not not actually having it above head level and with a good arch in the back. If the rules were changed so that skaters actually had freedom to do all kinds of different spiral sequences, then I feel they would definitely be a welcome return to Ladies skating.
    What happened between 2007 and 2010 that stopped all the skaters from doing bad fan spirals and made them start doing just the ugly catchfoots? And what is your definition of "good" for a catchfoot? Ando? Kostner? Rochette? Kim? Nagasu? Asada? None of the above?

  10. #40
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    I disagree with this topic.

    For me FS is also about other elements than just jumps. Step sequences are one of those elements, just like Spins.

    In my opinion is the focus on jumps way too high right now and they can disturb the choreo quite easily especially if skaters are forced Into high difficulty elements to stay competetive even if they Fall.

    Steps on the other Hand, enhance a Programm. Just look at adelinas moulin rouge, that was so awesome.

  11. #41
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    Uh... while Rosenthal was electric and had lovely movements, using her as a standard for the greatest footwork in recent times is ridiculous.
    How is it ridiculous? Her footwork in the LP mateusp1 linked is absolutely spectacular. Tons of speed, constant changes of direction, constantly demanding use of upper body movements, a wide variety of steps and turns, and quick changes between different steps/turns. NOBODY in the past 7 years has done a footwork sequence with that level of constant speed and intricacy while covering the ice surface in such a short amount of time. She completed that sequence in 17 seconds (16 seconds if we aren't counting the turning high kick at the end).

    Her footwork in the SP that I linked was less spectacular, she had less speed on it and one small bobble, but it was still exceedingly difficult. She is actually DANCING throughout the entire thing, not just doing turns on the ice. Trying to do steps and turns with full-body movement that actually have a PURPOSE, other than fulfilling a technical rule requirement, makes them far more difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I have to respectfully disagree. Her stroking looks labored and lots of skating on two feet with little transitions.
    Little transitions? She does steps into and out of every element of that program. It's two foot skating, sure, but how do you expect someone to perform break dancing? There's nothing wrong with two-foot skating when you're doing constant full-body movement. Rosenthal's choreography is far more difficult than throwing some useless one-foot turn inbetween elements.

    But you'll notice I didn't single out her skating skills. That is obviously her weakest area, although I disagree about her stroking looking labored. Can you point out where you see that in her performance? Sure, she could be better, but I don't see labored there. Plus, if you look at the LP, she does have many difficult one-foot turns. Look at the entrances into the Salchow, Axel, and second Toeloop.

  12. #42
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    I notice it more when the footwork doesn't fit the music. I would not notice a long footwork sequence done rapidly to something from Lord of the Dance or Riverdance. However when they do a long fast footwork sequence to slow music it looks like a ridiculous play for extra points. And when they do slow footwork to fast-paced music, it makes them look like they don't know what they're doing. If you can't keep up with your music, PICK DIFFERENT MUSIC! This is not rocket science, people!

    Sorry for the scream, but I went from rewatching a couple of gymnastics routines where someone did this to a skating routine last weekend and I don't think I've recovered.

  13. #43
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    How is it ridiculous? Her footwork in the LP mateusp1 linked is absolutely spectacular. Tons of speed, constant changes of direction, constantly demanding use of upper body movements, a wide variety of steps and turns, and quick changes between different steps/turns. NOBODY in the past 7 years has done a footwork sequence with that level of constant speed and intricacy while covering the ice surface in such a short amount of time. She completed that sequence in 17 seconds (16 seconds if we aren't counting the turning high kick at the end).

    Her footwork in the SP that I linked was less spectacular, she had less speed on it and one small bobble, but it was still exceedingly difficult. She is actually DANCING throughout the entire thing, not just doing turns on the ice. Trying to do steps and turns with full-body movement that actually have a PURPOSE, other than fulfilling a technical rule requirement, makes them far more difficult.



    Little transitions? She does steps into and out of every element of that program. It's two foot skating, sure, but how do you expect someone to perform break dancing? There's nothing wrong with two-foot skating when you're doing constant full-body movement. Rosenthal's choreography is far more difficult than throwing some useless one-foot turn inbetween elements.

    But you'll notice I didn't single out her skating skills. That is obviously her weakest area, although I disagree about her stroking looking labored. Can you point out where you see that in her performance? Sure, she could be better, but I don't see labored there. Plus, if you look at the LP, she does have many difficult one-foot turns. Look at the entrances into the Salchow, Axel, and second Toeloop.
    You are telling me that Rosenthal in 2006 (when the new system was just implemented, relatively new) executed the greatest footwork under COP? This isn't a racing competition where the fastest completion is superior to everything else; completing it in 17 seconds is not good news compared to people who were doing a lot more. Better than Yuna's footwork in Danse Macabre? Dai's Pagliacci footwork? Jeff Buttle's Armenian footwork? Not to mention dozens of skaters' other brilliant performances with incredible choreography in the past 8 years.

    I don't know. Sounds like trolling.

  14. #44
    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
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    IMO, Alexei Yagudin had some of the best footwork.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q70BbgHUIQ

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    Mao's step sequences have always been fantastic even in her worst programs. Her Masquerade LP was completely made by her steps. Her 2010-2011 Agony SP was awful in a way befitting its name; if I were to hazard a guess about its creation I would say Tarasova said "Zhanna, I'm heading out to lunch, choreograph the SP and I'll be back at 1 to do the step sequence!" to which Shanetta Folle replied "Yes, Gospozha" and slapped it together in 15 minutes. And even that program's steps were great. Maybe the one exception is the one from her bizarre Scheherazade SP, but I think there was no step sequence that could save that dreadful arrangement.
    I actually liked her step sequence in that SP. I thought it was pretty fun even though it didn't remind me of Scheherazade in any way but rather "I dream of Genie", which was okay because I am tired of Scheherazade anyways. Her Tango, on the other hand, is a program I'd like to forget.

    I miss spiral sequences. Yes, it's true many skaters had fugly positions but they should have made changes to the level requirements rather than take it out entirely. Now, a lot of spirals are just done as an afterthought in programs, whereas in the past, it was a highlight.

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