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Thread: Yuna's free program to Adios Nonino - Review

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    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Yuna's free program to Adios Nonino - Review

    I wanted to take a more in-depth look at this program's choreography. So I put together this video, in order to see the whole program as conceived, even though Yuna's performance was a bit rough and reserved. It combines her practice opening 3/3 and the rest of her actual program in competition.

    Video: https://vimeo.com/81298908

    My first impression overall was that the program definitely has more choreographic passages than last season's Les Miz, more sharp movements and transitions befitting a tango.

    I really liked the following sections in particular:

    • Movements right after the 3/3
    • Tango steps, turns after the 3Flip
    • Transition into the 3S/2T
    • Her poses right before step sequence
    • Ina Bauer into the 2A/2T/2L
    • The sharp arm movements after the 2A/2T/2L
    • Choreography between the solo 3S and the layback spin


    If she could add some energy to them with the sass she showed for her Bond Girl, Roxanne and Danse Macabre programs, these sections could really shine. The movement and steps in the raw I think are definitely tango, but to make it work she needs to add a bit of passion and her fierce diva attitude, which I think were missing at Golden Spin.

    Some areas that I think need a bit of work:

    The step sequence
    The choreographic sequence/spiral

    Both the step sequence and the choreographic sequence were a bit slow, and the choreographic spiral sequence didn't seem to go well with the music. Maybe she was tired and so the timing was off. The spiral's timing also seemed odd (it was during a silent pause in the music I think).

    As for the music cut, I like it up to the last 3Salchow and the layback. I thought it builds up well up to that point. After that, though, I'm not sure.

    I want to get people's opinions on what worked and what didn't. After watching the video, what areas of the program did you like and didn't like, and why? How would you improve it?

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    First off, congrats Yuna on winning Golden Spin! You can hold your head very high after a season debut like that, well done!

    As for the LP, I feel it was a bit disjointed, that I can't offer any critique other than re: thematic presentation. I didn't feel any message there. What is the message Yuna and David are after?

    I posted this in the Golden Spin thread and I think these thoughts best convey my feelings regarding Yuna's LP today:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    As enthusiastic as I am about the SP, unfortunately I'm a bit worried that her LP might be too somber. Already lots of wistfulness and goodbye present in "Send in the Clowns", I guess I feel like the LP should have more fire -- more triumph. "This is who I am, a beautiful grown woman moving into the next phase of my life, leaving on my own terms. Thank you for supporting me over the years, we will always be with each other in our hearts."

    One of the things I admire about Yuna's beauty is the way she handles herself ... her humility, class, and grace. She can portray sexy without resorting to the base level that most other women try. Still, I left this LP feeling like there should be more seduction, more fire, more tango. I know it's not the typical tango and was written as an elegy, and that's why the program choice has me worried, but I do hope to see something more powerful. The trick could lie in proper emphasis throughout different parts of the program, I'm not sure. The thought I keep coming back to is -- goodbye, yes -- but triumph and celebration even more.

    For today, I did not sense that kind of thematic unity, and the performance felt a bit disjointed. I think this is even besides Yuna's fatigue issue and technical mistakes. I think there is a wandering, searching in progress with this program from a presentation point of view. Still, though Yuna's "Adios Nonino" is more raw than "Send in the Clowns" at this time, I think I can start to see a possible light at the end of the tunnel. I hope that in the next two months the program will be refined, the vision will become more clear, and Yuna will approach the program with confidence and conviction to perform at her very best level of all time.

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    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    First off, congrats Yuna on winning Golden Spin! You can hold your head very high after a season debut like that, well done!

    As for the LP, I feel it was a bit disjointed, that I can't offer any critique other than re: thematic presentation. I didn't feel any message there. What is the message Yuna and David are after?

    I posted this in the Golden Spin thread and I think these thoughts best convey my feelings regarding Yuna's LP today:
    Thanks for your thoughtful post. I see what you mean about the lack of thematic unity. Given what Yuna said about having had little time to "fully digest" the program she's probably still working on making it more cohesive. I think the parts are there for a great program, though, just in raw form.

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    Long live the Queen! YunaBliss's Avatar
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    Wow. Thank you so much for this HD video!

    This program is not like Tango de Roxanne or Dance Macabre. I know some fans were expecting this to be like those, but this is a different type of program. It's more Gershwin, but combined with more flair and seduction (think Gershwin + Bond).

    There are Bond-like seduction moments (1:30, 3:10) which Yuna can pull off like none other, but the middle sequence, starting from about 2 minute mark, climaxing into her Ina-Bauer + 2/2/2 (which should have been 2A/3T) then ending with her 3S, is where this program's theme lies. And it certainly is not Tango.

    I am falling in love with this program, because it is really about a final farewell -- a passionate good-bye but without tears -- and that is what this program is meant to portray, not some fierce or sexy tango.

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    In general it is good but nothing extraordinary, not very different of her previous programs but I suppose Yuna and her mom appreciate too much to David W. to get another corepgrapher, it is not so good like Tango de Roxanne. It has too much poses, she should to remove at least this pose 3:12, what it is supposed to mean? , it doesn´t match the program , but the pose of the minute 2:15 is beautiful. The step seq is not bad choreographed but she is very slow in this section so it does not look good

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    music editing: creative combination of instruments, lots of variation and shades that can intrigue people to dig deeper. a touch of Jazzy feel. and smart utilize of little piano notes sequence to emphasize the phrasing of this Tango music. Yuna's jump ending, steps even crossovers are matched to these notes throughout.
    Purpose: this tango is an unusual tango. not only sensual, but an elegy to late father. therefore, Yuna's performance is different from ordinary tango...
    choreography:
    typical piazzolla tango asymmetric posing in the beginning and throughout this program(notice the release of tension mimic piazzolla tango dance well)
    3Lz-3T jump revolutions in the air match the vibrato piano notes (creative idea)
    tango pose after 3Lz-3T landing.
    the music preceding 3F is heavy however on the actually jump, the music is light, great contract and a prelude to the next tango bandoneon melody (creative idea)。
    Signature tango leg wrap moves.
    transition to the 3S-2t all well-done.
    combination spin matches music very well.
    step sequence very tango.
    change of melody, notice the piano notes used to highlight phrasing as well as Yuna's matching dance and transition to the 3Lz jumping pass.
    3Lz ending right on the piano note (phrasing) she added a -2T here, smart girl.
    symphonic crescendo highlights Yuna's huge bauer-2A-2T-2lo combination jumping pass.(the first climax of this program)
    tango transition moves into 3S.
    a little flirtatious smile after that (sweet).
    layback spin matched music well (from now on Yuna is a bit tired...)
    Choreographic sequence is a bit sloppy could be more sharp.
    2a immediately into final spin. the music here is the main melody repeated 4 times and matches Yuna's spin position changes.(creative idea)(the final climax of the program)
    ending pose is striking and contagious.
    My understanding of what this program/yuna want to convey:
    this is a elegy to late father, a memory of passed time, most of the performance is subdued, emotions are burning inside. occasional a flash of lightness and smile even a little flirtatious. reflecting the memory of good times.in the end, reminisce of everything: good, bad, ugly ... just one more time (repetitions of the main theme of music in the final spin to the end)

    overall great program with loads of potential to become a masterpiece!

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    Great seeing Yuna back. The jumps weren't 100% here, but I think they'll be rock solid by the time the Olympics roll around. I only watched the program once, but from a first impression I did feel the program itself was lacking in some ways... Her movements here were graceful and very even-paced, but Adios Nonino is dynamic music that calls for attack and pizzaz. I would have liked to see some varied choreographed steps or moments in between the jumps, and improved expression come her next competition. The spins I felt were also a bit weak, I don't really like the position she puts her free leg in the layback. Overall a big kudos though, really looking forward to seeing her at the Olympics!

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    I don't like it. When the music started I was thinking about Liza Tuk's Adios Nonino, and how much fire she had performing that SP her first senior GP season, and Yuna really does not have anything on Liza. After all this is a grossly overused piece of music and no one, not even Yuna can get away with a bland interpretation. Her short is very Yuna-esque, but this long program is not right for her. Asada's long program is much more rich and nuanced in comparison and I think it will show in PCS.

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    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidont View Post
    I don't like it. When the music started I was thinking about Liza Tuk's Adios Nonino, and how much fire she had performing that SP her first senior GP season, and Yuna really does not have anything on Liza. After all this is a grossly overused piece of music and no one, not even Yuna can get away with a bland interpretation. Her short is very Yuna-esque, but this long program is not right for her. Asada's long program is much more rich and nuanced in comparison and I think it will show in PCS.
    Let's try not to bring Mao comparisons here. It's only downhill from that point...

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    Her movements here were graceful and very even-paced, but Adios Nonino is dynamic music that calls for attack and pizzaz. I would have liked to see some varied choreographed steps or moments in between the jumps, and improved expression come her next competition.
    This.

    Idk if it is too late for Yuna Kim to change her choreography, but when I watch the program I feel like she's skating to a different music than Adios Nonino. When the music is upbeat, she's gliding around and moving her arms forlornly, which makes me go "huh?". It also doesn't help that David Wilson's cut of the music jumps from feisty to sad to playful, which makes the program come off as disjointed instead of cohesive. I don't know what I'm supposed to be feeling when I watch her performance.

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    Movements need to be sharper. She needs to bring more fire and sass to this program. Rewatching Lu Chen's Adios Nonino may be a good idea. It's still the definitive version of this piece for ladies. With that said, I much prefer this program to Les Miz. Choreography is more varied and has interesting moments.

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    See this is the problem I'm having with the program. Why choose tango but try to downplay the tango? The reverse should be emphasized -- some sadness and goodbye yes -- but overall those emotions are overcome by triumph and hope. I don't think it's a good idea to emphasize goodbye so much anymore, that's what "Send in the Clowns" is for. By "Adios Nonino" the wistfulness and nostalgia have already been spent, now let's see Yuna off into womanhood and the rest of her life.

    A proper farewell should be two parts: 1) so sad to say goodbye, and then 2) good luck on your new journey

    I feel like "Send in the Clowns" should be goodbye: looking back at the past journey, all the times we had.
    I feel like "Adios Nonino" should be goodbye: here we are now and into the future.

    That's why I suggest not downplaying the tango, and allowing for more seduction. There should be fire and triumph. Whatever the program becomes, there should be some kind of message and theme that gives hope for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    See this is the problem I'm having with the program. Why choose tango but try to downplay the tango? The reverse should be emphasized -- some sadness and goodbye yes -- but overall those emotions are overcome by triumph and hope. I don't think it's a good idea to emphasize goodbye so much anymore, that's what "Send in the Clowns" is for. By "Adios Nonino" the wistfulness and nostalgia have already been spent, now let's see Yuna off into womanhood and the rest of her life.

    A proper farewell should be two parts: 1) so sad to say goodbye, and then 2) good luck on your new journey

    I feel like "Send in the Clowns" should be goodbye: looking back at the past journey, all the times we had.
    I feel like "Adios Nonino" should be goodbye: here we are now and into the future.

    That's why I suggest not downplaying the tango, and allowing for more seduction. There should be fire and triumph. Whatever the program becomes, there should be some kind of message and theme that gives hope for the future.
    Good points. It should definitely be more focused on the positive side. Her facial expressions during the program were frequently pained or sad. But then she punctuates it with a few smiles and playfulness. I think I get what they're going for but it does feel odd to switch like that.

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    Honestly, I was a bit distracted the first time I watched it on the live feed (when was the last time she missed that combo??).

    I've rewatched it a couple times since, and I think it has a lot of potential. Yuna said that she found herself paying more attention to the rest of her jumps after her fall, causing for her to not emote enough, which logically makes sense. I'm just glad she kept herself together till the end (case in point, Sotnikova). As a result though, she wasn't showing us 100% of what the program is supposed to exude. You could see the concentration on her face, never mind any attempt at interpretation (thus the "stony-faced" comments).

    The reason why everyone was making a fuss about how difficult this music is to skate to, is because for an audience to get all the nuances of the music
    (this isn't like Le Mez, with a lyrical line that is easy to follow),
    the skater must skate the choreography perfectly whenever a line of music calls for it. It can't be too rushed, like it was today. It WILL feel disjointed and strange.

    She needs to squeeze every drop of sap she can get out of every turn she does (and for the record, being rushed and skating fast aren't the same thing).

    You mention the spiral timing. It's not usually something skaters do with a spiral, having it just accentuate the end of a phrase, instead of holding it out on a climactic point. An interesting touch on Wilson's part, and I think it'll be lovely when executed by a Yuna with more steam.

    For one, she also seems to be correct when she says her stamina hasn't been where it should be for long enough, for her to feel enough ease to just SKATE her programs. She needs to get to the point, where she doesn't have to think about it.
    That would take care of the speed. Near the end of the step sequence, I felt like she was just throwing away those last couple rocks/brackets. Slow and a bit sloppy.

    Which brings me to her step sequence right before her final spin. By my 5th time watching it (yes, my Saturday was spent in front of my computer, judge all you want...), when I was over lamenting at how distant she seemed to be, I could see all these little details, small missed moments, that would be what will make this program the one that will/will almost/might/could win the ogm. They aren't technical in that she's not getting deep enough edges. She just has to become more comfortable with the program so she can express the heartbreaking bitter-sweetness of the music, and make it seem more unified. And frankly, no matter what we say in this forum, she isn't GOING to drastically change/add elements. She's going to build on what she's got.

    One commenter said that it might even be a bit too ambitious for her, and today, it did seem like it. But I think she's capable. She seems to talk of "performing" a lot in recent interviews, and seeing how she KNOWS that there's more to the program than posing and jumps makes me think that she knows perfectly well what is required of her to pull this one off.

    Not that worried about the jumps. Sue me.

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    Both of her programs this year are hurt by the step sequences. They just go on and on without enough purpose. Last year David Wilson was brilliant with the construction of the step sequence to the music in the LP. The first 18 seconds of it was grand and fast-paced, but then there's a natural musical transition to a slower and softer piece, which allowed Yu-Na to slowly do required turns for the sequence while looking like she was solely interpreting the music. The sequence actually goes on for 40 seconds but almost the entire second half of it doesn't look like she's performing an element. It's extremely hard to make footwork, with all the ridiculous required rules, work that well choreographically and interpretively.

    Beyond that, I feel the choreography for ALL of the spins in the LP should be improved. My breakdown of her current spins, in their current program order, and how I would change them:

    FCCoSp4 - This is good until the weak half-upright twisted position she does. Not a good look, slows the spin down, and doesn't go with the music. She should instead do an upright crossleg position there. That's a feature she used in 2010 and for some reason her coaches haven't been utilizing it since then. It would work better. She should also take out her trademark upside-down camel position at the start of the spin here and replace it with a donut position, because the upside-down position needs to be used as a feature later in the program.

    LSp3 - There is no point in doing a Layback here. She isn't able to execute this move nearly as well as she used to and it doesn't go with the music. This is a lackluster piece of choreography and just throws .8 base value away technically. She should instead be doing a CCSp4: backwards camel entrance, change to upside-down position, change foot to upward catch-foot camel position, then change to an inside edge after a couple rotations.

    CCoSp4 - The change of edge on the Camel has to come out, since we already used it in her previous spin. That's a good change anyway because it slows this spin down, which is particularly distracting when considering how rapidly the music is moving at the end of the program. After the entry camel position she'll go down into a regular sit position, instead of the broken-leg position she's currently attempting right now; that position doesn't look great for her. Following the sit spin she'll pull up into a haircutter layback position. Afterward, change foot to back camel, as in the current spin, and then do a jump down into sit spin position. She needs this extra level feature here since we took out the change of edge at the start of the spin and a jump works great with music here anyway. She'll end the spin by pulling up into the upright I position, as she currently does.

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