Germany can be out of the Olympics due to the anti-gay law | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Germany can be out of the Olympics due to the anti-gay law

MalloryArcher

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
save the wishful ill fated results from athletes of a specific country for yourself, and most have disapprove of your immature statement
we should refrain from politics and focus in figure skating .
wishful karma for self gain ?. poltical trollism should not be flooded here

lol at associating athletes as sharing the views of a whole nations stance
and rooting for the sake of a shallow cause

good luck to your cause of having Germany pull out
sounds like a lost cause

I don't believe I have said anything to give you the impression I don't know anything about figure skating. That's an awfully big assumption to make, based on your reading of just 1 or 2 posts I have made. If you mean the technical aspect of figure skating, well if that is your interest you should be pleased to know that there are many many sections of this forum where you can post and read about that. This particular conversation is about politics and figure skating. I really find it hard to understand why you want to shut down a conversation because you don't find it interesting or important, or whatever. I find it interesting, other people (I think) find it interesting, so maybe you should just ignore us and go somewhere else. It's really not your place to tell people to keep opinions you don't agree with to themselves. Unless you are Putin himself, of course (are you??? :laugh:)

I also don't know what you mean by "self-gain". I have nothing to gain from anyone pulling out of the Olympics. I am just a fan. I have my opinions like anyone else, but my investment here doesn't go beyond the emotional. I think the decision to not attend the Olympics should be made individually by athletes and delegates. If athletes choose not to attend, I find that heroic and selfless. They have been training for this, I know (and everyone keeps pointing out, over and over again), for a long time, so I understand (and don't blame them) if they do attend. But to put that behind a belief in a greater ideal of what is right and moral is really amazing. No one has done this yet, I know, and perhaps no one will, but I would still be impressed if anyone did. I was even impressed by Diva Wagner speaking out, when other skaters have not, because like I said, gay fans of this sport don't get their love and dedication returned all that often from the sport (love Diva Wagner, and hope she skate amazing in Sochi!)

I also really think you need to look up what trolling really means (I'm guessing English isn't your first language, which is fine, maybe you are confused by this term). Trolling is not expressing unpopular opinions. It is firing out insults and racist/sexist/homophobic or inflammatory language for the purpose of aggravating others. I'm not doing that. I'm trying to give my opinion about what I would feel if Germany or anyone else decided to boycott the games, in as measured and careful a way as possible. Last time I checked, it wasn't a crime to have opinions different to yours (again, unless you actually are Putin. Then I'm in trouble, I suppose :laugh:).
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
diverse opinions are allowed
but wishful failure of athletes from a country is deplorable

and wishing skaters to fail from a country because for a vengeance from ones own individual political view is :disapp:
again this is for figure skating thread not for political tollism
 

MalloryArcher

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
diverse opinions are allowed
but wishful failure of athletes from a country is deplorable

and wishing skaters to fail from a country because for a vengeance from ones own individual political view is :disapp:
again this is for figure skating thread not for political tollism

OK I don't even think you're reading my comments anymore. Gurl, you crazy. I just said I didn't wish for their failure, only that I prefer and wish to do better other athletes. I said this multiple times

PS did I read on another forum you gloating about the injuries of Canadian skater Kaetlyn Osmond? ...hypocrite...
 

Alex D

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Tatiana is a very friendly person, to wish her bad luck is really not nice and the same applies for every other Russian Athlete. I am looking forward to a fair pair skate competition, no matter if V/T or S/S wins - it will be well deserved and the loan for a decade of hard work.

That said, don't write the Chinese off!

Personally there is a lot I don't agree with in this world, but I would never ever put the blame on someone in this forum, or outside of it - just because he or she represents that state so to speak.
 

yelyoh

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Anyone who wants to use the spotlight of the Sochi Olympics for their own political gains is totally selfish and offensive at the best!

Trying to ensure that people do have to be abused even to the point of having their children taken away is being compassionate and not political. I can clearly see from your previous comments in the Johnny Weir thread on this topic that you are homophobic and support anti gay policies and THAT is political!!!!!!
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
diverse opinions are allowed
but wishful failure of athletes from a country is deplorable

and wishing skaters to fail from a country because for a vengeance from ones own individual political view is :disapp:
again this is for figure skating thread not for political tollism

Forgive me, however you don't seem to practice what you preach. Here is a recent example :

disappointing eh ? so where are the ladies Canadian medals ? oh yeah Canada has no ladies
and the mighty Osmond that will crush all the Russian ladies is no more
she is busy landing on her butt !!! :rofl:

Osmond is a Non Factor for Sochi
boo hoo :cry:
bo ho hu hu hu

Your post was highly offensive to an injured skater and a little girl who just turned 18. Last season, you even nicknamed her "Fallmond", which got you scolded by several posters.

I find it hard to follow to your "lead" as a result.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
diverse opinions are allowed
but wishful failure of athletes from a country is deplorable

and wishing skaters to fail from a country because for a vengeance from ones own individual political view is :disapp:
again this is for figure skating thread not for political tollism

Whatever. You wish failure and predict that skaters like Chan and Osmond will fall all the time. You gloat about when skaters do poorly and call them headcases. You're the worst person to be chiding somebody about saying ill things about skaters when you've spewed and continue to spew vile things. :rolleye:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Irony: homophobia on a figure skating forum

There's a larger irony involved. The fact that the Putin Law affects the Winter Olympics means that the international sport most associated with gay participants and fans, figure skating, is affected. This gives the situation a far more personal dimension both for visitors and for Russians taking part in the Games (not to mention spectators).
 

pista04

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
What I question is if situations like the threatening of boycotts mean anything in the minds of the IOC and the members of the General Assembly. Of course, the decision to grant the rights to host in Russia was done well before the passage of the infamous anti-LGBT Propaganda law.

What I wonder is if moving forward the IOC will make efforts to not select a state where a possibility of this situation occurring exists. Yes, you can argue that the IOC did not know that this specific law would come into existence, but doing quick research between 2006 and 2013 ten regions of Russia passed anti-homosexual laws and so I think it is safe to say that one could be concerned that this issue would reach the national level.

I am sure if this law was passed before the decision the bid would definitely have had a harder time being successful as this would frame the nation as not following by Olympic Values of inclusion and unity across social strata. While I do not advocate the stripping of the Games from a state unless there is a security issue at hand, I wonder if there will be any such agreement made with countries in the future regarding the passage of legislation that goes against Olympic values. This would be highly problematic as one could say that this would allow the Olympic movement great political power, one could also argue that it would be a component of the business agreement between the hosting nation and the IOC.
 
Last edited:

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
This is hardly a country known for its human rights. If this is the worst they can do, it's still shows a massive improvement since, say, Stalin's time when people were being starved or murdered left and right. I wonder if this law wasn't created partially to discourage certain athletes from coming to Sochi. I would be shocked if anyone really was arrested, though. I don't think Russia is that stupid.

There is a more serious problem at hand though. Should certain countries not be allowed to bid for Olympics based on the bad behavior of their governments? Until that question is settled by the IOC or politicians, I don't think boycotting is a good idea. It's unfair to the athletes. They can't win. If they boycott, their careers are ruined; if they don't, they appear to approve of the human rights violation. If Jesse Owens could put up with Hitler, I suppose athletes can put up with anything.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
There are endless and countless differences and conflicts to each other and in everyone of the 195 countries in the world. The Olympic movement, for my understanding, is that all the countries get together, forget all the differences and conflicts for a moment, and have an international reunion through friendly competing each other in the form of sports. Sports event is not going to solve the differences and the conflicts. Hopefully it could provide an opportunity for the countries to get to know each other a little bit more.

People should not use their own country's standard to measure another country and determine wether that country is qualified or not. It is a decision of the whole governing body of the sports which is not formed and controlled by one or two powerful countries in the world. The up roar from some people in a few western countries on taking away hosting rights from China, or from Russia, or from Qatar can only show one thing - these people are arrogant. It is not your country, not your call. Try to learn a little bit how to get along with other countries!:sarcasm:
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I am sure if this law was passed before the decision the bid would definitely have had a harder time being successful as this would frame the nation as not following by Olympic Values of inclusion and unity across social strata. While I do not advocate the stripping of the Games from a state unless there is a security issue at hand, I wonder if there will be any such agreement made with countries in the future regarding the passage of legislation that goes against Olympic values. This would be highly problematic as one could say that this would allow the Olympic movement great political power, one could also argue that it would be a component of the business agreement between the hosting nation and the IOC .

I think attempting to limit what countries can host the Olympic games because they would inevitably be alienating people and causing friction basically saying which are right and which are wrong. And it would be taking an event that is supposed to be a time for the world to unite into another political mess that divides people.

What I wonder is if moving forward the IOC will make efforts to not select a state where a possibility of this situation occurring exists.

Except, how would you define what should prevent a country from hosting the games and who would get to make that decision? If you dig into each country you could find laws, practices, etc that should exclude them from hosting the games. I think the IOC should ask countries to let the individual athlete decide what they want to do if a host country has laws or practices they disagree with. That way if an athlete forgoes their dream of competing in the Olympics, its their decision, it's not being ripped away from them by some politician.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
There are endless and countless differences and conflicts to each other and in everyone of the 195 countries in the world. The Olympic movement, for my understanding, is that all the countries get together, forget all the differences and conflicts for a moment, and have an international reunion through friendly competing each other in the form of sports. Sports event is not going to solve the differences and the conflicts. Hopefully it could provide an opportunity for the countries to get to know each other a little bit more.

People should not use their own country's standard to measure another country and determine wether that country is qualified or not. It is a decision of the whole governing body of the sports which is not formed and controlled by one or two powerful countries in the world. The up roar from some people in a few western countries on taking away hosting rights from China, or from Russia, or from Qatar can only show one thing - these people are arrogant. It is not your country, not your call. Try to learn a little bit how to get along with other countries!:sarcasm:


Silence=Death
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
There are endless and countless differences and conflicts to each other and in everyone of the 195 countries in the world. The Olympic movement, for my understanding, is that all the countries get together, forget all the differences and conflicts for a moment, and have an international reunion through friendly competing each other in the form of sports. Sports event is not going to solve the differences and the conflicts. Hopefully it could provide an opportunity for the countries to get to know each other a little bit more.

People should not use their own country's standard to measure another country and determine wether that country is qualified or not. It is a decision of the whole governing body of the sports which is not formed and controlled by one or two powerful countries in the world. The up roar from some people in a few western countries on taking away hosting rights from China, or from Russia, or from Qatar can only show one thing - these people are arrogant. It is not your country, not your call. Try to learn a little bit how to get along with other countries!:sarcasm:

I suppose you would have an Olympics in North Korea and be perfectly fine with that?

You know what arrogance is? Inviting the world into your backyard, and expecting them not to speak out against human rights issues, and instead expect them to show practically deference and turn a blind eye towards your country's willful persecution and discrimination -- towards your own citizens, no less. :disapp:
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
There is a more serious problem at hand though. Should certain countries not be allowed to bid for Olympics based on the bad behavior of their governments? Until that question is settled by the IOC or politicians, I don't think boycotting is a good idea. It's unfair to the athletes. They can't win. If they boycott, their careers are ruined; if they don't, they appear to approve of the human rights violation. If Jesse Owens could put up with Hitler, I suppose athletes can put up with anything.

then no country would able to host an Olympics if you base in such human righst anyways
not even the US with its atrocious murdering drones and large rape. prison popualtion and domestic violence cases in the developed world
nor Canada, Japan never apologizing for victims of comfort women , nanjing massacre etc. we could go on on with every countries gross human rights violations
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Every country has its issues but there are many countries that do not discriminate against their own citizens resulting in criminal persecution. You're comparing apples with oranges if you're going to suggest that Russia somehow has a comparable human rights record than less extreme nations. You're as likely to convince me that Hitler and Obama are one and the same because their decisions resulted in deaths of people.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Every country has its issues but there are many countries that do not discriminate against their own citizens resulting in criminal persecution. You're comparing apples with oranges if you're going to suggest that Russia somehow has a comparable human rights record than less extreme nations. You're as likely to convince me that Hitler and Obama are one and the same because their decisions resulted in deaths of people.

right because the wonderful oh Canada is a beacon for human rights
talk about pot calling keetle black
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I think attempting to limit what countries can host the Olympic games because they would inevitably be alienating people and causing friction basically saying which are right and which are wrong. And it would be taking an event that is supposed to be a time for the world to unite into another political mess that divides people.

Except, how would you define what should prevent a country from hosting the games and who would get to make that decision? If you dig into each country you could find laws, practices, etc that should exclude them from hosting the games. I think the IOC should ask countries to let the individual athlete decide what they want to do if a host country has laws or practices they disagree with. That way if an athlete forgoes their dream of competing in the Olympics, its their decision, it's not being ripped away from them by some politician.

Those are interesting questions to address. To give some context to this controversy, keep in mind that the perception regarding homosexuality has dramatically changed in the last 20 or so years such that it is only now becoming a concern. If we were in 1984 today, nobody would have made any fuss regarding this Russian law knowing that back in 1984, homosexuality was widely blamed for AIDS that started to spread merely some 3 to 4 years before. Germany today is a very social liberal country but even back in early 90's, the first on-screen gay kiss in a German soap series netted the actor(s) concerned with several death threats. However, if we were to change the issue to say race, then back in 1984, there was not a chance that South Africa could possibly host the Olympics due to its racial segregation problems.

Our perception of what is right and wrong does evolve over time, sometimes faster than we realize. Looking at the countries that have hosted Winter Olympics since 1984 - Canada, France, Norway, Japan, USA, Italy and note that Winter Games has fewer participating countries from Africa/Middle East and South & SE Asia - it's not difficult to understand why this law has caused some uproar. The participating countries of Winter Games tend to European, from the Americas, East Asia and Oceania. In those places, gay rights have made very significant stride in the last 10 years - several European countries have pretty much eliminated any form of discriminations against gays and the EU has made it a requirement for any new prospective members. In Americas - Canada, some U.S. States + several Latin American cities such as Mexico City and Buenos Aires have legalized same-sex marriage. New Zealand has joined the club as well, even Australian Capital Territory (Canberra) has recently joined the fray. It is illegal to discriminate against gays in Tokyo for the purpose of employment and Japan is generally fairly safe to gay travellers while Taiwan is talking about legalization of same-sex marriage. China adopts a fairly laisser-faire attitude. So when you do a tour of most of the Winter Games countries, Russia really feels like an odd one out.

The bottom line is : What does the modern Olympic movement stand for? Differences between countries will always happen, that's a given. However, the line needs to be drawn somewhere. Would it be acceptable to give the Olympics to a country where women showing their legs in public is condemned and/or forbidden? Should we respect that as well? Would that be consistent with the Olympic charter?

Looking at the IOC's charter, they seem to interpret the Charter's respect of human diversity to include sexual and cultural minorities. I recall when this law was first passed, Denmark quickly issued an official protest to Russia by citing violation of the IOC Charter, EU Standards and UN conventions. While Russia isn't part of the EU, it is a member of the UN and Russia has a moral obligation to respect those standards in which it is part of even if it may not a signatory to every concerned resolution. Furthermore, EU has been clear that respect of human rights is a pre-condition of any long-term EU-Russia partnership or any relationships between EU and another country or super-national organization for that matter.

Simply put, if a given social issue has reached a point where the collectivity of the international community as a whole perceives as a concern, then it may legitimately become a criterion in which a prospective host country may be asked to fulfil and respect. I am confident that the IOC will make that clearer going forward which they probably weren't expecting given the recency of this topic.
 
Top