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Thread: What changes (if any) should Yuna make to her new programs?

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    What changes (if any) should Yuna make to her new programs?

    So Yuna debuted her new programs this weekend at Golden Spin in Zagreb: "Send in the Clowns" for SP, and "Adiós Nonino" for her LP.
    What are your feelings on her new programs, and do you think any changes are needed?

    I'm going to use the YT videos linked on Yuna's approved fb page, for reference.

    SEND IN THE CLOWNS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tz4T...&feature=share

    I think Yuna and David have done a fantastic job with this program. I feel like it's going to be my favorite SP of hers, ever. The music selection and cut, wow, it's really emotional and appropriate, and lends itself to fantastic interpretation. For me, this program blows the competition out of the water this year, but I still want to give it a quick review.

    Music: wistful, nostalgic. I can feel from the first time I watch the program, that this should be about Yuna's farewell, remembering all the times from the past, happy and sad. Someone once wrote that for Yuna to really deliver an A+ performance for Gershwin, she had to become the music notes themselves. I think for "Send in the Clowns", Yuna will have to become the nostalgic emotion as she skates across the ice. I think it's unlike her to become emotional during a competition, particularly during the performance itself, but I think for a full presentation she may have to actually yield to her memories. Even if she held back tears during the skate, as long as it was from the heart and not acting, it would be unbelievably moving.

    Story: As Yuna delivers this program, I imagine her journey from little girl first trying on skates, to the beautiful woman and retiring champion that she is now. Any minor changes to the program that I suggest are in that light.

    0:34-1:00+: Opening and 3Lz+3T
    This all looks lovely to me. I just want to comment on something very subtle that I think is cool...normally when Yuna does her 3+3 it's timed with the change in music, which can sometimes get drowned out by the applause. I love how this time, the rise in the emotional music comes just a few seconds later, around 1:05, after the applause have ended. Very cool to hear all its fullness, and see Yuna with a lovely expression as she looks upward at the same time.

    1:05-1:27: 3F
    Once again all of this looks beautiful, and Yuna does a really good job between the two big jumps. Often the lesser skaters look like they're just doing jumping drills across the ice, but with this program I think Yuna and David have done an especially good job of making the big jumps look artistic and beautiful, as part of the program.

    1:27-1:40+: FCSp4
    I love the positions, but I wish they would change the exit ever so slightly. After the spin, Yuna briefly breaks into a run, and it really reminds me of the same thing she did with that bright smile in the middle of Gershwin at the Olympics. Getting back to how I see this program as a remembrance of her career, I wish she would exit the spin and start this move sooner, or hold it a bit longer, or both, match it with the rise in the music, and basically make it look like she's recreating that triumphant moment.

    1:45-2:00+: 2A
    Lovely transitions and ina bauer entry. As she spreads her arms, I remember her gliding across the ice for her entry into 2A+2T+2Lo during Les Miserables. Can you see it too?

    2:05-2:20: LSp3
    Good and same as Les Mis last year at worlds, though that one was better. (but at the Olympics I'm sure it will be sublime)

    2:20-3:00+: StSq4
    For the most part this is wonderful, and I love the brief outside edge spiral and how it matches the music. I know the spiral is so short because of rule changes, and it just adds to the level of the step sequence (as opposed to being its own element), but really I'm not thinking about that when I watch the program -- I'm imagining a young Yuna succeeding at this move for the first time, maybe even not able to hold it that long. :P

    In that light, this part of the program is where I would suggest a whimsical addition. It's really a silly notion on my part. Keeping with the theme of looking back at Yuna's journey from little girl to the champion she is now, I wish that after the spiral, she would add something as trivial as a single jump, or positional jump. Some kind of nod to her younger days. Wouldn't it be beautiful? In fact I think it would be a positive addition to the step sequence, it might carry the pace and emotional momentum at just the right moment.

    3:02-3:22: CCoSp4 and ending pose
    Perfecto. Yuna really did a good job with this in Zagreb too, I can feel this element more than some of the others for that particular showing. The little hop is perfect (adds points too), and the finishing pose = job well done.

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    ADIÓS NONINO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-LuRoxUhQw#t=139

    I've had some problems connecting with this program since it debuted yesterday, and I think that's because it's more unfinished than we're accustomed to seeing. There are wonderful parts, and then some parts that have received mixed reviews. The program as a whole leaves me feeling a bit disjointed -- I feel a certain lack of continuity, like the program doesn't build and capitalize on its own momentum. The problem could be as simple as the step sequence and some of Yuna's interpretation in that part not being right. It's very possible that just 30 seconds or so in the middle is causing most of my frustration. It's also possible that Yuna's fatigue contributed a great deal the mixed perception. It seems this is a program that will need more and more energy later in the performance, and her stamina just isn't there yet after injury.

    Nevertheless, I think there's a lot of potential with what Yuna and David are doing here. I'm starting to get into the program now that I've watched it many more times, though its not easy. This still feels like a work in progress to me.

    Music and theme: I'm not sure this was my favorite choice for Yuna's finale, but I will say the music grows on you. I'd even go so far as to say there is potential for it to be EXACTLY the right choice of music, but I don't know if it's quite there yet. I understand this is not a saucy tango, but I don't think it needs to be interpreted as a literal elegy, either. Even this kind of tango can still have intensity, albeit subdued.

    I think the best way to strike a balance would be this approach -- have several alternating themes throughout the program:

    1. Poignant reflection, sad to say goodbye
    2. Triumph and celebration, wishing each other well
    3. Looking back years from now, we can say "yeah, we did all of that and then some" with a wry smile

    That's the feeling I get from the music and the occasion -- this is a different kind of goodbye from the short program. Less emotion, more composure. I don't think this should be a sad goodbye, or have any kind of nostalgia in it either (that's what "Send in the Clowns" is for). The program feels like it should pack slow pace into the beginning, build momentum back and forth between poignant reflection and light playfulness...but ultimately change into triumph and celebration (signature layback ina bauer into 2A+2T+2Lo), then one last dizzying, frenetic choreo sequence, until by the end and Yuna's final pose, it feels like we're looking back years from now and thinking "yeah, those were the days!"

    Start at 3:00: 3Lz+2T
    I have to skip ahead to here (we'll get back to the beginning in a minute), because I think the preceding step sequence kills all the program's momentum for me. At the very least, these pivotal next few moments of the program don't feel properly set up. But I've found that if you just skip ahead to the 3:00 mark in the video and watch from there, at least for me it's easy to feel the back end of the program, starting with the 3Lz+2T, which is a great jump for Yuna. Lovely use of her arms on the transition out.

    3:10-3:20+: signature layback ina bauer into 2A+2T+2Lo
    Yeah, this whole part pretty much kicks butt. Best part of the program, best part of the music, best everything, hands down.

    3:21-3:28: transition / choreo before next jump
    Love when Yuna quickly turns around and fires her arm into the air. This choreo and presentation started out well, but I think the last few seconds she needs to engage the program more. I think she lost touch this time, and instead concentrated too early on her next jump (which was telegraphed too long). This was one part of the program where I could visibly see her tired, and it looked like she was just trying to make it to the end. When her stamina improves, I don't think this will be an issue and it doesn't worry me.

    3:28-3:38: 3S
    Telegraphed, as I mentioned, but I think just her fatigue was the issue. Not a concern in the long run.

    3:38-3:45: some flirtatious poses
    Some people had a problem with these, others thought they were great. I don't really have an opinion either way at the moment. I trust that once Yuna fully digests the program and presentation, she will have tried everything that comes to mind and give the best presentation there is to give for this kind of moment.

    3:45-3:57ish: LSp3
    The layback spin is fine, but I think this is a missed opportunity for Yuna to do something really innovative. The spin starts out matching the music, but then I feel like it should be accelerating. At first I thought of her putting in a CoSp here, but actually now I think this would be a wonderful spot for her to try something we've never seen -- possibly from anyone. It's near the end of the final program of arguably the greatest ladies figure skater of all time. Wouldn't it be amazing to see her try something innovative here, that better matches the music? Could help her to get level 4 over level 3 as well.

    The dreaded dead spiral at 4:00+:
    This is perhaps my least favorite part of the entire program. There's a flat spot in the music here, nothing that can be done about it, but the spiral doesn't fit, and in my opinion the following choreo sequence needs more work. I'd like to see Yuna do an innovative LSp4 or CoSp4 or something that ends her previous element just in time to give her a slow respite here, before the final choreo sequence. Kind of like a final pause "this is it, this is the end, here we go" kind of moment.

    4:00-4:21: ChSq1
    Yuna only got level 1 for this, so it needs to be reworked anyway. I also feel like this is the climax of the entire program, and the music lends itself to a building, frenetic, dizzying enchantment. The ChSq should even go a bit longer than it does, even at the risk of encroaching upon the lead in to her final 2A. She needs to land that jump safely, but I feel like she needs to continue spinning and skating choreo right up to the last possible nanosecond before she has to safely prepare for her jump.

    4:21-4:25: 2A
    Because of the music, there should be as little demarcation between the choreo sequence and the 2A as possible.

    4:25-4:43: CCoSp1 and final pose
    Yuna only got level 1 here too, so that will have to be fixed. The final moves and pose out of her spin though are great!

    ----------

    The final 1 minute 45 seconds of her program I can see it all come together. The problem I'm having is to start at the beginning and feel it build up to all of this. The beginning is set with the big jumps and works with the music, but somewhere in the middle the program loses me.

    0:35-1:00?: 3Lz+3T
    Yuna fell this time but it's not an issue in the long run with her. The jump times really well with the music, I like this part.

    1:00-1:20: 3F
    Yuna looks good here.

    1:20-1:40: transitions and 3S+2T
    It was smart of Yuna to add the 2T here after she fell earlier. About the transitions ... one of the things that Yuna is best known for is her superior arm movement. She has the loveliest arms and movements of all ladies in figure skating. But here and at other moments of the program, when the mood was more subdued, I think she used her arms too much. Not the tango hand-on hip part, which I liked, I'm talking about the rest, and especially after she circles around and starts gliding around to the other end of the rink for her next jump. I feel like it might be better during subdued moments like this to keep her arms closer to her body, and appear more like moments of vulnerability and inward reflection.

    1:40-2:00: FCCoSp4
    Yuna looks good here too, I always love her FC spins.

    2:00-2:25/30: StSq3 (part 1)
    I really like the first half of her step sequence. The part where she tangos sideways facing the judges...love that. Wish to see more of it. She just needs to skate faster here and with more fire, I think that's what the performance was missing.

    2:25/30-3:00: StSq3 (part 2)
    This is the part of the program that loses me. I'd like to see Yuna skate slower here. Keep her arms closer to her body. Give vulnerability and the sense that she's reflecting inward. Skate within herself, rather than outward.

    I think she also needs to drift towards the end of the rink as soon as possible. I feel strongly there needs to be some kind of pause before 3Lz+2T and her signature moment after that. Somehow the last half of her step sequence breaks all the momentum of the performance and fails to properly set up the signature moments.

    ----------

    Sorry this review was so long. I wanted to share my thoughts, and I'd like for all of you to offer yours as well.

  3. #3
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Her outfits need changing. Besides that, they seem pretty okay to me.

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    Tripping on the Podium penguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Her outfits need changing. Besides that, they seem pretty okay to me.
    I wonder if it will happen. The response in Korea has been unfavorable, and a lot of headlines have been pointing out disgruntlement with the yellow SP dress. The designer declined to interview, but Yuna has defended it: "I consulted with the designer in making the dress, and some uncomfortable aspects will be revised. The dress is not that important. What's most important is the competition. I don't think there needs to be so much interest given to the costume." (The last part is a little awkward in translation, she means she'd prefer people not fixating on it.)

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    I like the yellow dress idea, but I think the shade could be a bit brighter, and the cut could be better. If it gets changed a little, I'm still in favor of a yellow dress. I really like the black dress.

    But like Yuna, I hope most of the focus will be on the skating and the program.

  6. #6
    Long live the Queen! YunaBliss's Avatar
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    Sorry to crash this fun party, but as penguin mentioned, Yuna arrived today in Korea and directly confronted these questions:

    (courtesy of Realdeal at yunaforum.com)

    Q: What do you think you need to improve on? Any plans to modify the programs?

    YNK: I got the levels I wanted to get in the SP. In the FS, I was shaky in the competition performance. I had a mistake in the final spin that led resulted in such [a low] level. I think it's important to do steps and spins precisely as I do in practices. I don't think there are any particular parts which need modifications.

    Q: There are words that you'll modify the costume. Do you plan to overhaul the dresses?

    YNK: It's my first time I wore the costumes for competition performance. I've just finished a competition, so I'm not sure if I would want to make a major overhaul. Costumes are important but performance levels are more important. I don't think they (fans) need to pay too much attention to the costumes.


    Yuna added that she may consider modifying her costume a bit to enhance her skating comfort, but not to make cosmetic changes.

    The Queen has spoken.

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    No changes to SP, slight changes to StSq, ChSq, and maybe spins in LP. But still not much needed at all.

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    You've been repeating the same things over and over for the past day and a half, but I guess we can continue the general discussion on Yu-Na's programs here. BTW, the ChSq is only a Level 1 element. She didn't "get" a Level 1 on it.

    What I wrote earlier, mostly about the LP, to continue the discussion: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post802738

    More thoughts and specifics on the Short Program:

    *I wish she would take a little more time at the start for the music to breathe. Add extra slow-paced interpretative movements. I'm not a fan of the hop she does at the beginning; this music is all about nostalgia and simple phrasing. Movements like that feel too progressive at the start here, even though she does it gently. I disagree about putting the opening combination jump before the rise of the music. Putting her 3Lutz+3Toe 7 seconds later in the program with that swell of music, after having actually taken the time to better establish a mood for the program, would be just about the most inspiring thing ever.

    *I'd have her first spin be the Layback instead of the Flying Camel. Since the elements in the program are being moved further back to spend more time at the start for choreography, the placement with the music has to change. With the Layback as the first spin, she can finish it off with her haircutter position at 1:43 right when the music is swelling. She can still do her "grasping into the air" movement with the second swell of music shortly after.

    *Another nice thing about moving the elements back like this is because of the outside-to-inside spread eagle she does before the 2Axel. If she did that a few seconds later, the change to an inside edge would come with the change of music at 2:00. She'd then follow it up with the Flying Camel.

    *Because of these changes, the footwork sequence would need to be shortened by 5 seconds in order to still hit the final spin in time. That alteration was something I wanted for the choreography anyway, so we've fulfilled the other modifications to fit with the desired end result. The footwork could remain the same up through the spiral section of it and be good with the music still; the spiral would hit the accent of music at 3:32 rather than 3:27. There are a couple posing sections and a hop in this footwork that can be taken out to shorten it, while still having the requirements for Level 4. I would end this sequence with another short spiral, done in clockwise direction and changing edge after coming out of spiral position. Her first spiral is done is counter-clockwise direction and doesn't actually help to increase the level of the step sequence right now, because you need to do the same type of step in both directions during the sequence in order for it to count.

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    After having more time to reflect on Yuna's LP, I think I have some new thoughts:

    1. I was overly critical about Adiós Nonino. At first I thought this program needed a lot more work and still wouldn't be one of my favorites, but now I think with just a couple of important changes it would be absolutely magnificent.

    Change #1
    There needs to be more of an introverted, somber presentation at certain points of the program, particularly in the last half of the step sequence.
    I posted this in another thread:

    In Adiós Nonino, the [critical] moment occurs at Yuna's layback ina bauer into 2A+2T+2Lo. Everything in the program should build to this moment, and everything after should feel natural to follow it. This is the part of the program that brings everything together from a pacing and emotional point of view, ultimately leading to the final climactic choreo sequence.

    The problem I was having with this program was that the buildup to this moment seemed a little "off". I kept focusing on the music, but I can't decide if the music fails to build properly or not. That's when suddenly it occurred to me -- there is an emotional problem (or lack thereof) in the middle of the program, around the step sequence. The signature moment around Yuna's layback ina bauer is a triumphant moment, and it should be preceded by negative feelings of mourning or despair. The problem was the lack of emotional buildup in the program, not the music!
    What I mean is that triumph should be preceded by negative feelings -- lament, despair, regret, etc. On Saturday in the live thread I posted that the signature music at Yuna's ina bauer seemed to come out of nowhere, that the program didn't seem to prepare the audience for this moment in a proper way. I thought it was because of the music or construction of the program, but alas no, the failure was in the lack of emotional buildup. When the presentation kind of wanders aimlessly, and then a triumphant moment comes out of nowhere, you feel like "wow, that came out of nowhere", which is exactly what happened. But if the triumphant moment is preceded by negative feelings, and then it happens, you feel like "wow, that was uplifting!" That's the change that is needed to bring this whole program together and unify it.

    Last half or so of the step sequence Yuna should skate more introverted, arms closer to her body, and draw the audience into her sad lament. It would be even better if this occurs a little in earlier parts of the program when the music permits. The program needs more fire in the tango parts, and more despair in the other parts. But adding that feeling of sad regrets (or insert whatever negative emotion you feel is appropriate) into the presentation, particularly in the last half of the step sequence, would properly set up the triumphant moment at Yuna's ina bauer, allowing the program to realize its full emotional potential.

    It would not take any radical or major changes to make this happen. Just minor choreo changes and mostly Yuna altering her presentation a bit.

    Change #2
    More frenetic, dizzying, almost out of control climactic choreo sequence at the end

    This is the only major change I feel like would be necessary, and at the end, it's not so hard to revamp this part. The music feels like there should be an almost dizzying out of control energy in the final sequence, but at Zagreb, Yuna was pretty tired and just seemed to get through the program, doing choreo that didn't really fit the music.

    If done properly, this might be the hardest challenge of Yuna's career, as the kind of sequence needed would require tremendous energy at the end of her free skate, when she will naturally be the most tired, fully conditioned or not. Yet if anyone can do it, I know Yuna can, and it would give the impression that Yuna left everything on the ice and held nothing back heading into retirement.

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    I would like for a skater's costumes at the Olympics to be a surprise, a costume that hasn't been seen before. Historically, has any skater done that? Certainly a skater as wealthy as Yuna could afford to . She could try it out to see if it works skating wise at her own private dress rehearsals. I find it odd wearing one's Olympic dress at a "lesser" competition, especially a so-called B one.
    I doubt seriously if the judges are going to nit pick about her costume as long as it satisfies the basic rules. She could improve her over-all look if she didn't cover her boots. That looks ugly and detracts imo . Again, if she is trying to lengthen the look of her legs, she could well afford skin tone matching boots.

  11. #11
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
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    A few examples off the top of my head of skaters debuting new costumes at the Olympics are Kristi Yamaguchi 1992 LP, Shizuka Arakawa in 2006, Sasha Cohen 2006 LP, Johnny Weir 2010 LP. There are a lot more though. The Japanese skaters seem to change their costumes all the time. I suppose it's a nice option if you have the funds, but it should not be expected considering how severely expensive those costumes are. I really like both of Yuna's costumes and don't think she needs to change anything. The simple lines make it more about the skating and the chartreuse SP dress is different, mature and compliments her skin tone. Totally agree about the over-boot tights although not a fan of beige skates either. Yuna doesn't need to legthen the look of her legs and nothing beats the look of white skates.

  12. #12
    Long live the Queen! YunaBliss's Avatar
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    do you see any guys wearing white skates? OBTs for ladies are like black skates for guys - they go better with costumes and are sexier.

  13. #13
    축복, 축도 RABID's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennyanydots View Post
    A few examples off the top of my head of skaters debuting new costumes at the Olympics are Kristi Yamaguchi 1992 LP, Shizuka Arakawa in 2006, Sasha Cohen 2006 LP, Johnny Weir 2010 LP. There are a lot more though. The Japanese skaters seem to change their costumes all the time. I suppose it's a nice option if you have the funds, but it should not be expected considering how severely expensive those costumes are. I really like both of Yuna's costumes and don't think she needs to change anything. The simple lines make it more about the skating and the chartreuse SP dress is different, mature and compliments her skin tone. Totally agree about the over-boot tights although not a fan of beige skates either. Yuna doesn't need to legthen the look of her legs and nothing beats the look of white skates.
    But we're talking YuNa here. I can't speak for her other fans but I am used to her costumes being iconic and this is her last splash. A bland costume makes me fear for a bland performance, irrational as that sounds. I enjoy ooooohing and ahhhhing her and it starts with her costumes. Of course I could grow to love her costumes IF she wins it all.

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    She needs to get new costumes. ESP for the SP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YunaBliss View Post
    do you see any guys wearing white skates? OBTs for ladies are like black skates for guys - they go better with costumes and are sexier.
    Totally disagree with you on this!

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