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Thread: Hanyu sees Chan as inspiration and not a rival.

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    Hanyu sees Chan as inspiration and not a rival.

    In a press conference with Reporters, Olympic forerunner Yuzuru Hanyu stated that does not see Three time world champion Patrick Chan as a rival but looks up to him.

    He remarked that competing with Chan at both Grand Prix assignments before the Grand Prix Final gave him the confidence to step up and not be intimidated at all.

    Hanyu seems to have his head in the right place. Has Chan peaked too early? Can Hanyu keep his drive up for another two months? Will another skater challenge both of them in Sochi? All will be answered in February.

    Please leave your thoughts below.

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    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    I guess GPF proved that if Yuzu can land all of his jumps successfully, he will beat Patrick no matter what Patrick does, as of now.

    However, if Patrick can get more comfortable with doing a triple-axel and include a second one successfully in the second half of his FP, I guess Patrick might still win even if Yuzu is perfect??

    The axel is Patrick's nemesis jump, and it's so funny to see Mr. Wonderful Edges looking as awkward as he does when he's prepping for the axel. Shows that no one is perfect.

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    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah
    I guess GPF proved that if Yuzu can land all of his jumps successfully, he will beat Patrick no matter what Patrick does, as of now.
    How did the GPF prove that?

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    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    How did the GPF prove that?


    Yuzu's SP was a world record, with a fall on the quad salchow. He basically bested Patrick and everyone else at their best thus far.

    And Yuzu also won the FP, which is when I realized Yuzu has a very good chance to win gold at Sochi. Patrick's FP was not bad. It was not his best, but it was pretty good, so Yuzu bested Patrick on one of his pretty good days, even with a fall on the quad salchow.

    Yuzu won because Yuzu is the far superior jumper to Patrick, to the extent that he can beat Patrick who has, of course, superior skating skills to Yuzu. Yuzu used to have stamina problems, but this time, at GPF, he proved that he now has the stamina to skate with power all the way to the end, so if Yuzu can skate with the power and stamina that he displayed at GPF, he has a very good chance to best Patrick even at his best.

    So basically, despite Patrick's superior skating skills, Yuzu can basically outjump Patrick now. Still (and I am repeating myself here), if Patrick can master the triple-axel more properly by Sochi and make his double-axel pass into a triple-axel pass, Patrick, I would think, would still beat Yuzu at his best.

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    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Yuzuru had a clean SP at TEB and scored 95+. Here, he got 99+. What makes you so sure that Patricks SP score wouldn't have been higher than the 98+ from Paris too?
    They have a very pretty similar layout in the SP, Yuzuru just has more jumps in the 2nd half. I'm not sure that would be enough to outjump Pat in the SP.

    It's tricky comparing scores from different events, and we saw some pretty high numbers at the GPF. Patrick was 'clean' in the LP, but didn't skate as well as he did in Paris. This one event doesn't give you any definite indication of how both of them would have been scored against each other when 100% clean.

    It would be very close, and I'm sure if Hanyu is crystal clean, Patrick couldn't afford one little mistake. But if he's picture perfect himself, he'll win above Yuzuru.

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    I can't predict the outcome at Sochi, but I'm tremendously impressed with Hanyu's poise and modesty. That's something Chan could learn from his younger rival.

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    Chan has had everything his way for a long time now. He had a slight threat from Denis Ten at Worlds, but shrugged that off. The judges didn't give Ten high enough PCS scores to topple Chan even though Chan's performance was not clean and Ten's was. But Ten didn't have an outstanding competitive resume and he didn't represent a powerful federation.

    That is not the case with Hanyu. He goes to Sochi as 2012 World bronze medalist, 2012-2013 GPF silver medalist, 4th at 2013 Worlds, and now 2014 GPF Champion. The judges will not view him quite the same way as they did Ten at 2013 Worlds. If he lands his jumps, he will get the PCS scores and GOE he deserves, and they well might rival Chan's.

    The pressure is now on Chan, and it is a pressure he has not known before. It has been said in the past that he had a two-fall cushion, but now he knows he has no margin for error at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I can't predict the outcome at Sochi, but I'm tremendously impressed with Hanyu's poise and modesty. That's something Chan could learn from his younger rival.
    ITA, in a way I find this statement from Hanyu funny and impressive at the same time, when I think about how Patrick reacted at the GPF.

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    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    ITA, in a way I find this statement from Hanyu funny and impressive at the same time, when I think about how Patrick reacted at the GPF.
    For once we agree. I was very impressed by his class and humility.

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    Not disputing that both Hanyu and Chan each has the chance to win the OGM at Sochi but I can't agree with the conclusion drawn from the GPF as presented here.

    Firstly, when someone wins with his best SP ever and one of his best LP over a rival with a rare messed up SP and a "pretty good" LP, it does not necessarily lead to a winning streak or imply a superiority as a norm.

    Secondly, Hanyu did have the home ice advantage at the GPF. Such benefits cannot be overlooked seeing the world records by Japanese skaters have usually been achieved in Japan. There will be no home ice advantage to either at Sochi. However Chan did have one of his best performances ever in Russia, smashing 3 WR in one competition.

    Thirdly, Chan had to deal with some mental issues at the GPF, one being the unexpected distraction of the sky cam during the SP and the other being the shadow of previous poor showings in Japan which Chan admitted as a preoccupation which he was happy to overcome to bounce back from a bad SP.

    Fourthly, though Hanyu's LP BV was 8 points over Chan's at the GPF, this is not always so seeing Chan downgraded some of his jumps and still almost equaled Hanyu's LP TSS.

    The ice will be slippery at Sochi but not in the same ways as in Japan.

    I notice Hanyu has made big strides this season, in his skating, his stamina as well as the mental fortitude. All these make him all the more formidable.

    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah
    Yuzu's SP was a world record, with a fall on the quad salchow. He basically bested Patrick and everyone else at their best thus far.

    And Yuzu also won the FP, which is when I realized Yuzu has a very good chance to win gold at Sochi. Patrick's FP was not bad. It was not his best, but it was pretty good, so Yuzu bested Patrick on one of his pretty good days, even with a fall on the quad salchow.

    Yuzu won because Yuzu is the far superior jumper to Patrick, to the extent that he can beat Patrick who has, of course, superior skating skills to Yuzu. Yuzu used to have stamina problems, but this time, at GPF, he proved that he now has the stamina to skate with power all the way to the end, so if Yuzu can skate with the power and stamina that he displayed at GPF, he has a very good chance to best Patrick even at his best.

    So basically, despite Patrick's superior skating skills, Yuzu can basically outjump Patrick now. Still (and I am repeating myself here), if Patrick can master the triple-axel more properly by Sochi and make his double-axel pass into a triple-axel pass, Patrick, I would think, would still beat Yuzu at his best.

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    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever come across any statement by a Japanese skater that wasn't classy and gracious. I don't know if it's cultural, or good work by the federation, or just a great group of skaters, but it's really striking.

    As for Hanyu, he's always had this ability to look at his idols and the best skaters and find ways to emulate them. I am glad that he's also figuring out how to do so while also developing a distinct style and approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Not disputing that both Hanyu and Chan each has the chance to win the OGM at Sochi but I can't agree with the conclusion drawn from the GPF as presented here.

    Firstly, when someone wins with his best SP ever and one of his best LP over a rival with a rare messed up SP and a "pretty good" LP, it does not necessarily lead to a winning streak or imply a superiority as a norm.
    Not so rare to see Chan make mistakes. Not so rare to see other skaters with high base value these days. Patrick Chan is a great skater, but he is not the overwhelming favorite he might have been two years ago. You can make whatever excuses you like (was the skycam brought out especially for Patrick?), but men's skating really is a competition again, which I for one am very happy about.

    BTW, re home-ice advantage: one the big breakthrough records was when Takahashi became the first skater to score more than 170 in the LP/260 total at 2008 4CC, marks that stood for more than three years. 2008 4CC was held in South Korea. Hanyu's SBs so far - all of which were PBs at the time - have been achieved at 2011 4CC (Taiwan), 2012 Worlds (France), 2012-13 GPF (Russia) and now, for the first time, in Japan. His first world record was for the SP, and he got that at 2012 Skate America. So what does that tell you? Nothing, really, other than that Hanyu can potentially excel anywhere, which is something that is true of all the top skaters.

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    I think both are neck to neck. If you look at boht SP layout, Hanyu has advantage in TES while Chan will score about 2+/- in PCS. If they both skated clean and light out, the score will be close but we can expect Chan will have about 2+/- cushion, but certainly not more than 5 points.

    In LP both equally has pro and cons. Hanyu has advantage of doing second 3A and on average they will score higher GOE than Chan. While Chan has 2 quads than he can hit 90% of the time. That is not the case for Hanyu, as he has yet to hit both 4T and 4S clean in major competition. And both doesn't have a good records of skating clean LP and hitting all planned jumps elements so we can expect some pop or double. Thou it will be nice to see both skated clean and Chan will def not win OGM with performance like 2013, unless everyone else pretty much bomb too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I can't predict the outcome at Sochi, but I'm tremendously impressed with Hanyu's poise and modesty. That's something Chan could learn from his younger rival.
    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    ITA, in a way I find this statement from Hanyu funny and impressive at the same time, when I think about how Patrick reacted at the GPF.
    Forgive me if I misunderstand you in anyway as I am still jetlagged. What exactly was objectionable yet again, in your opinion, re: Patrick Chan's reaction at GPF?

    There is absolutely nothing I can think of, in fact, even some of formerly lukewarm journalists toward Chan remarked how mature he has become vs. just a few years ago.

    I am going to ask you two to please cite and explain what exactly you are implying because it isn't right or fair to continue to sour someone's reputation when the said person hasn't done anything to merit it.

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    Wally I think there was an uproar when Patrick said he would let Hanyu have the GPF as he wanted the Olys.

    It seems to me the opposition to his statement comes from people who perhaps dont understand the nuances of the English language. They take phrases like this literally as being meaningful and saying something significant. If that is not the case ie they do understand English then it could be that they refuse to acknowledge the nuances of the language.

    That being said I was once told very proudly by a 20 year old American (on a cruise) that she was not Caucasian she was white!! So maybe they just dont get it!!!

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    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Forgive me if I misunderstand you in anyway as I am still jetlagged. What exactly was objectionable yet again, in your opinion, re: Patrick Chan's reaction at GPF?

    There is absolutely nothing I can think of, in fact, even some of formerly lukewarm journalists toward Chan remarked how mature he has become vs. just a few years ago.

    I am going to ask you two to please cite and explain what exactly you are implying because it isn't right or fair to continue to sour someone's reputation when the said person hasn't done anything to merit it.
    It came from Chan's interview on NBC after the event (discussed here), where he said that he let Hanyu win, or that Hanyu needed it more than him, or that he was okay with Hanyu winning for whatever reason. Interpretations of what he said and meant vary - including those by native English speakers.

    I think that instead of essentially accusing two long-time posters of smearing an athlete's reputation, you should have made your request more politely. Or looked in the GPF threads. It's not as though Chan has never made unfortunate statements.

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