The Powerhouses of Women's Skating
- Thread starter coppertop1
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Chouinard was wonderful, I agree. I wouldn't say she was a relative unknown, though. She was Canada's greatest ladies' skater for some time. Only her nerves held her back. Fortunately she had a productive pro career after she stopped skating competitively. She had a charming "stage presence" along with her skating gifts.
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2006
She was a complete package, and watching her in tours and pro competitions was great. Her talent really shone through.
I wonder who the next woman to do a triple Axel will be? Mae Berenice is very powerful, she does remind me of Surya Bonaly, but with more finesse. However, a very powerful skater, I wouldn't be surprised to see her do it.
I wonder who the next woman to do a triple Axel will be? Mae Berenice is very powerful, she does remind me of Surya Bonaly, but with more finesse. However, a very powerful skater, I wouldn't be surprised to see her do it.
This is the way I look at skating. That's why I don't pay much attention when people talk about how Liza T. or some other skater has lost her possibility for a top finish by going through a growth spurt. She will find what works for her and use it, just as Irina and others have done through the years. If men's skating can encompass body types as different as Paul Wylie, Elvis Stojko, and Evgeny Plushenko, then ladies' skating can also. This isn't a hope or a guess on our part. It's been demonstrated time and time again. The ice may be slippery, but human ingenuity and perseverance can prevail.
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2006
Well said! People can be such fair weather fans, they need to learn not to demand success and then give up when a girl hits puberty and does not deliver, or make uncalled for comments about their weight. It happens to every girl. Some also suffer injuries like Sasha Cohen or Cynthia Phaneuf. Women have different bodies which lend itself to different styles. It's a double standard that men aren't under the same pressure as women, and it exists in figure skating. It doesn't matter that a girl doesn't have the body of a ballerina, but her weight and body fit her physique. Liza T is around the same build as Emily Hughes at her peak and Rachel Flatt, all of whom are good skaters, and great athletes. I remember reading Evy Scotvold saying "As soon as a skater has a nice body like the girls next door, it's over". He is apparently notorious for that. Tonya Harding, Midori Ito, Irina Slutskaya, Joannie Rochette all had athletic builds, they had great speed and big jumps.
You don't see a lot of variety in the types of programs in the last few years, though.
The way I see it, there are 5 types of female skaters, although all skaters have some qualities of more than one.
1. Ballerinas. Skate best in feminine costumes, must have bun head, very soft and/or serious music.
2. Glamourous. They are sexy and they know it. Often do tangos or portray some femme fatale.
3. Tomboys. They are powerhouses who are known more for jumping than "artistry."
4. Perky. They are cute and bubbly, happy just to be out on the ice
5. Artsy and different. You rarely see this, though. I'd put anyone who dares wear pants in this category, though perhaps temporarily.
The last few years, there have been an overload of ballerinas or pseudoballerinas. What worries me is that I've seen skaters do well with another type of program, get criticized because it's not "sophisticated" enough, come back the next year doing a cookie cutter violin or piano piece with cookie cutter hair and cookie cutter costume and whatever made them stand out is gone. Two I can think of off hand are Kanako and Mirai. I think a lot of skaters who would do better skating in another "category" are being pushed into the ballerina-type persona and it's not working.
I mean, imagine if Tonya couldn't skate to Jurassic Park or Oksana couldn't tap dance to My Fair Lady, or if Tara had to skate to some piano concerto instead of Anastasia? What a boring world it would be.
The way I see it, there are 5 types of female skaters, although all skaters have some qualities of more than one.
1. Ballerinas. Skate best in feminine costumes, must have bun head, very soft and/or serious music.
2. Glamourous. They are sexy and they know it. Often do tangos or portray some femme fatale.
3. Tomboys. They are powerhouses who are known more for jumping than "artistry."
4. Perky. They are cute and bubbly, happy just to be out on the ice
5. Artsy and different. You rarely see this, though. I'd put anyone who dares wear pants in this category, though perhaps temporarily.
The last few years, there have been an overload of ballerinas or pseudoballerinas. What worries me is that I've seen skaters do well with another type of program, get criticized because it's not "sophisticated" enough, come back the next year doing a cookie cutter violin or piano piece with cookie cutter hair and cookie cutter costume and whatever made them stand out is gone. Two I can think of off hand are Kanako and Mirai. I think a lot of skaters who would do better skating in another "category" are being pushed into the ballerina-type persona and it's not working.
I mean, imagine if Tonya couldn't skate to Jurassic Park or Oksana couldn't tap dance to My Fair Lady, or if Tara had to skate to some piano concerto instead of Anastasia? What a boring world it would be.
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2006
Is there a difference in skating terms between speed and power? They seem to go hand in hand? I've thought power refers to strength and jumping.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
I'd add Gabrielle Daleman to that list. She reminds me of a very slightly more refined Courtney Hicks, who is also a powerhouse jumper. I'd also add Bebe Liang, Oksana Baiul, Adelina Sotnikova, and Agnes Zawadzki. They weren't/aren't exactly known for landing their jumps, but all had/have major power when it comes to spring, height and coverage.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2013
Yuna Kim
Carolina Kostner (both Yuna and Caro were lyrical skaters but they had insane speed and huge jumps too so..)
Denise Biellman
Tonya Harding
Midori Ito
Debi Thomas
Surya Bonaly
Irina Slutskaya
MAYBE Gracie will end up on this list...
I don't include Mao even though she does triple axels because overall I find she works best as a delicate skater
Carolina Kostner (both Yuna and Caro were lyrical skaters but they had insane speed and huge jumps too so..)
Denise Biellman
Tonya Harding
Midori Ito
Debi Thomas
Surya Bonaly
Irina Slutskaya
MAYBE Gracie will end up on this list...
I don't include Mao even though she does triple axels because overall I find she works best as a delicate skater
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
Gracie is definitely on the list. Her ability to land the jumps doesn't negate her power when it comes to getting them up in the air. A lot of the powerful jumpers on this list weren't the most consistent...but they were still natural jumpers. Gracie, if nothing else, is definitely a powerful skater.
I wouldn't put Mao on the powerful list either. Though she obvious has amazing power to her jumps (you can't do a 3A w/o power) her jumps don't soar the way the others' on this list do nor do they have the height and speed. She's most definitely an effortless-looking jumper, but not exactly a powerful one.
Harding, Ito, Bonaly, and Slutskaya are definitely the standard-bearers here.
From more recent skaters, I'd include Rochette, Wagner, Sotnikova, Meite, and Tuk (make a comeback, girl!). (Wagner more for the attack in her skating than her jumps, but I think she belongs in this category).
I interpret "powerhouse" not just in terms of jumping ability, but in terms of style. Hence why Yuna and Mao don't make my list. Yuna's a powerful jumper but she goes for the more refined style of skating. Mao probably doesn't make the list even taking out her lyrical skating style--as Kwanatic notes, while Mao can do the difficult jumps, she doesn't get the height, distance, or power on them. Gracie belongs in terms of jumping ability but I think she's trying for refined style at this point. Not sure if it's working.
From more recent skaters, I'd include Rochette, Wagner, Sotnikova, Meite, and Tuk (make a comeback, girl!). (Wagner more for the attack in her skating than her jumps, but I think she belongs in this category).
I interpret "powerhouse" not just in terms of jumping ability, but in terms of style. Hence why Yuna and Mao don't make my list. Yuna's a powerful jumper but she goes for the more refined style of skating. Mao probably doesn't make the list even taking out her lyrical skating style--as Kwanatic notes, while Mao can do the difficult jumps, she doesn't get the height, distance, or power on them. Gracie belongs in terms of jumping ability but I think she's trying for refined style at this point. Not sure if it's working.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2011
Mao underrotates not due to lack of power, rather due to how late she pulls in to the rotation on her jumps. Power on Asada's jumps is really underrated. She doesn't fly into the 3Lz and 3F like Kim or Kostner, but her jumps have great height. Her 3A in particular gets more air time than any other jump by a lady today, only losing out when you compare with Ito and Harding. Distance and flow are definitely not the best but she is still capable of good distance and flow out on a couple of her jumps (mainly 3F, 3Lo, 2A). I also wouldn't really put her as a "powerhouse" skater, though.
It seems most posters are saying they don't consider the more refined skaters powerhouses - can a "refined," delicate-looking skater be considered a real powerhouse as well?
It seems most posters are saying they don't consider the more refined skaters powerhouses - can a "refined," delicate-looking skater be considered a real powerhouse as well?
Oh, no way would I say Mao lacks power. And I don't think she underrotates because of lack of power. I wouldn't put her in the powerhouse category because of her style of skating. It is a bit unfair that she gets compared to Ito and Harding, while other girls don't do 3A and therefore don't have to face that comparison.
For me, it's a bit more of a scale. I do think many skaters blend "powerhouse" and "refinement." I think Yuna, for instance, has qualities of both, but she leans more on the refinement side. On the other hand, Rochette is far more refined than Ito or Harding, but I'd still place her in the powerhouse category because she has more of those qualities. And it's not just about body build, so much as movement, style, speed, ect. (but skaters tend to pick styles that work for their body type, hence the correlation).
For me, it's a bit more of a scale. I do think many skaters blend "powerhouse" and "refinement." I think Yuna, for instance, has qualities of both, but she leans more on the refinement side. On the other hand, Rochette is far more refined than Ito or Harding, but I'd still place her in the powerhouse category because she has more of those qualities. And it's not just about body build, so much as movement, style, speed, ect. (but skaters tend to pick styles that work for their body type, hence the correlation).
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2012
Definitely! I remember watching the video of her performance at the World Team Trophy and being stunned by how huge her jumps are.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2013
I agree with all of this. Mao is fantastic, but her style is just so light and airy that power wouldn't become here. That's why I love this sport! It's great when a skater finally realizes where their strengths lie, and works it.
I tend to think of Osmond as falling in the powerhouse category as well, especially in terms of body type.
It's kind of interesting, but most of the top Canadian ladies in the last 30 years (especially those who were reasonably successful internationally) have tended toward the powerhouse end. None were wispy ballerinas.
It's kind of interesting, but most of the top Canadian ladies in the last 30 years (especially those who were reasonably successful internationally) have tended toward the powerhouse end. None were wispy ballerinas.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
That's Daleman's problem. Her jumps are actually too big. She loses control and ends up going down. I've been saying it for two seasons now, but someone needs to rein her in and slow her down a little bit.
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