Yes! Denise was as ahead of her time as was Midori. She was doing the lutz when most women were doing one or two triples.
Originally Posted by plushyfan
Denise was the first woman to do a triple lutz! And even more impressive is she stayed a powerhouse even in her pro career, well into her thirties she still did triples. She was in great shape!
Gracie is very powerful, her jumps are amazing! I think once Liza adjusts to her body she will regain her jumps and use her power to her advantage
I think in skating, every body type has it's advantage. The wispy ballerinas are light and graceful and rotate easily, the powerful ones have speed and power and often HUGE jumps, and the taller skaters have a commanding presence and cut beautiful lines on the ice. It's a case of knowing your strengths and using them.
powerhouse as in big jumps ?
I think I would add when she was on Josee Chouinard a realtive unknown that girl when she was on had huge jumps as did Nicole bobek when she was on too.
Oh yes, Josee was a very good jumper, they were high and light, looked easy. Nicole's jumps were also strong, only flaw was her flutz. Krisztina Czako and Julia Sebestyen, both of Hungary were both very powerful. Peggy Fleming described Czako as a "powerhouse".
I've got your program components right here.
Love this thread, Coppertop1.
I wish I had something to add to the conversation. I just want to echo the mentions of Midori Ito and Tonya Harding.
...And my new favorite Mae Berenice Meite. Would love to see her doing triple axels in competition.
Chouinard was wonderful, I agree. I wouldn't say she was a relative unknown, though. She was Canada's greatest ladies' skater for some time. Only her nerves held her back. Fortunately she had a productive pro career after she stopped skating competitively. She had a charming "stage presence" along with her skating gifts.
Originally Posted by Skater Boy
She was a complete package, and watching her in tours and pro competitions was great. Her talent really shone through.
I wonder who the next woman to do a triple Axel will be? Mae Berenice is very powerful, she does remind me of Surya Bonaly, but with more finesse. However, a very powerful skater, I wouldn't be surprised to see her do it.
Originally Posted by Pepe Nero
This is the way I look at skating. That's why I don't pay much attention when people talk about how Liza T. or some other skater has lost her possibility for a top finish by going through a growth spurt. She will find what works for her and use it, just as Irina and others have done through the years. If men's skating can encompass body types as different as Paul Wylie, Elvis Stojko, and Evgeny Plushenko, then ladies' skating can also. This isn't a hope or a guess on our part. It's been demonstrated time and time again. The ice may be slippery, but human ingenuity and perseverance can prevail.
Originally Posted by coppertop1
Well said! People can be such fair weather fans, they need to learn not to demand success and then give up when a girl hits puberty and does not deliver, or make uncalled for comments about their weight. It happens to every girl. Some also suffer injuries like Sasha Cohen or Cynthia Phaneuf. Women have different bodies which lend itself to different styles. It's a double standard that men aren't under the same pressure as women, and it exists in figure skating. It doesn't matter that a girl doesn't have the body of a ballerina, but her weight and body fit her physique. Liza T is around the same build as Emily Hughes at her peak and Rachel Flatt, all of whom are good skaters, and great athletes. I remember reading Evy Scotvold saying "As soon as a skater has a nice body like the girls next door, it's over". He is apparently notorious for that. Tonya Harding, Midori Ito, Irina Slutskaya, Joannie Rochette all had athletic builds, they had great speed and big jumps.
Originally Posted by Olympia
You don't see a lot of variety in the types of programs in the last few years, though.
The way I see it, there are 5 types of female skaters, although all skaters have some qualities of more than one.
1. Ballerinas. Skate best in feminine costumes, must have bun head, very soft and/or serious music.
2. Glamourous. They are sexy and they know it. Often do tangos or portray some femme fatale.
3. Tomboys. They are powerhouses who are known more for jumping than "artistry."
4. Perky. They are cute and bubbly, happy just to be out on the ice
5. Artsy and different. You rarely see this, though. I'd put anyone who dares wear pants in this category, though perhaps temporarily.
The last few years, there have been an overload of ballerinas or pseudoballerinas. What worries me is that I've seen skaters do well with another type of program, get criticized because it's not "sophisticated" enough, come back the next year doing a cookie cutter violin or piano piece with cookie cutter hair and cookie cutter costume and whatever made them stand out is gone. Two I can think of off hand are Kanako and Mirai. I think a lot of skaters who would do better skating in another "category" are being pushed into the ballerina-type persona and it's not working.
I mean, imagine if Tonya couldn't skate to Jurassic Park or Oksana couldn't tap dance to My Fair Lady, or if Tara had to skate to some piano concerto instead of Anastasia? What a boring world it would be.
Is there a difference in skating terms between speed and power? They seem to go hand in hand? I've thought power refers to strength and jumping.
I just rewatched Midori Ito's 3A. Its monsterous!!
Rejoicing in the land of Kwan
I'd add Gabrielle Daleman to that list. She reminds me of a very slightly more refined Courtney Hicks, who is also a powerhouse jumper. I'd also add Bebe Liang, Oksana Baiul, Adelina Sotnikova, and Agnes Zawadzki. They weren't/aren't exactly known for landing their jumps, but all had/have major power when it comes to spring, height and coverage.
Carolina Kostner (both Yuna and Caro were lyrical skaters but they had insane speed and huge jumps too so..)
MAYBE Gracie will end up on this list...
I don't include Mao even though she does triple axels because overall I find she works best as a delicate skater