Can patrick chan close the gap on yuzuru hanyu? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Can patrick chan close the gap on yuzuru hanyu?

cheerio2

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Jan 27, 2013
Apparently Hanyu is now the #1 Japanese man. This simple fact does add something on his PCS. You don't need to refer his "past" numbers. So-called skating skills are not objectively measurable as numbers of rotation in the air. I think "skating" alone is not enough to win at the most prestigious "sports" event. The OGM will go with the highest TES.

I think Hanyu has great skating, especially his flow and speed. He seemed to be able to gain speed with minimal crossovers and that, combined with difficult jump entries, often made his jumps seem to come out of nowhere. That's not a quality I saw in any other skater's program (from GPF at least). It was very impressive.
 

Violet Bliss

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Nov 19, 2010
It's easier for Chan to close the gap than for Hanyu because dumbing down is much easier and attainable than catching up.

Joking aside, I believe it's going to depend on their mental state on the days though Chan still has an edge if they both do their best.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Chan being the better artistic skater

You must not tell lies. That smoke screen doesn't exist anymore. The dark billowing smog of the Chan machine has been cleared away by the Hanyu clean air act. Chan will get credit for superior skating skills and nothing more. Just as it should be, just as it always should have been.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
You must not tell lies. That smoke screen doesn't exist anymore. The dark billowing smog of the Chan machine has been cleared away by the Hanyu clean air act. Chan will get credit for superior skating skills and nothing more. Just as it should be, just as it always should have been.

:laugh: Just like at the GPF where even with his home cooked PCS scores Hanyu still lost to Chan on every PCS category?

Speaking of smoke screens, from TEB to the GPF, somehow Hanyu's SS shot up from 8.39 to 9.11, TR from 7.82 to 9.00, PE from 8.11 to 9.29, CH from 8.29 to 9.43, and IN from 8.36 to 9.36. Nothing like home ice to add a full point to your PCS categories.

His PE and IN were stronger than TEB, but that doesn't explain how Hanyu had essentially the same choreo/transitions between the 2 events, and yet his CH and TR scores went up by over a point. :unsure:
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Speaking of smoke screens, from TEB to the GPF, somehow Hanyu's SS shot up from 8.39 to 9.11, TR from 7.82 to 9.00, PE from 8.11 to 9.29, CH from 8.29 to 9.43, and IN from 8.36 to 9.36. Nothing like home ice to add a full point to your PCS categories.

Get used to it, the Russians want Hanyu to beat Chan as well. Hanyu beating Chan secures the Team Gold for Russia.
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
You must not tell lies. That smoke screen doesn't exist anymore. The dark billowing smog of the Chan machine has been cleared away by the Hanyu clean air act. Chan will get credit for superior skating skills and nothing more. Just as it should be, just as it always should have been.

Pc wise Chan imho should be ahead - Chan's skating skills are phenomenal and he deserves to b ahead of Hanyu bymiles but I fear that won't happen. That being said tes wise Hany is far superior and that often colors everything.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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So Russia/Japan propping up Hanyu's marks is something you are okay with and isn't killing the sport, but Chan getting high marks is killing the sport? Hah, okay there. :rolleye:

Hanyu isn't being propped up, he's receiving accurate scores in comparison to how overscored Chan is. He deserved to beat Chan on PCS at the GPF Short Program and he deserved to be on equal footing with Chan in the Long Program. Results like this are exactly what should have happened so many times in the past and now it is finally reality, a reality that puts the sport in the direction it should be.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Hanyu isn't being propped up, he's receiving accurate scores in comparison to how overscored Chan is. He deserved to beat Chan on PCS at the GPF Short Program and he deserved to be on equal footing with Chan in the Long Program. Results like this are exactly what should have happened so many times in the past and now it is finally reality, a reality that puts the sport in the direction it should be.

You're entitled to your opinion (as biased as it may be) but to suggest Hanyu received accurate PCS (92.5 points with a fall) at the GPF is pretty ridiculous. Like you honestly believe Hanyu earned that 193 score with a fall, and it wasn't blatant home ice inflation?

You whine about Patrick falling and winning, whereas Hanyu falls at the GPF and wins the LP over a clean Chan (and in spite of said fall gets immensely higher PCS than his previous PB), and all of a sudden the sport is going in the right direction. :rolleye:

If Chan didn't skate his TEB FS, Hanyu would have the World Record FS for his GPF free skate. Think about if that were the case... a world record FS with a fall... truly indicative of the sport going in the right direction. :sarcasm:
 

wonderlen3000

Final Flight
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Nov 8, 2008
:laugh: Just like at the GPF where even with his home cooked PCS scores Hanyu still lost to Chan on every PCS category?

Speaking of smoke screens, from TEB to the GPF, somehow Hanyu's SS shot up from 8.39 to 9.11, TR from 7.82 to 9.00, PE from 8.11 to 9.29, CH from 8.29 to 9.43, and IN from 8.36 to 9.36. Nothing like home ice to add a full point to your PCS categories.

His PE and IN were stronger than TEB, but that doesn't explain how Hanyu had essentially the same choreo/transitions between the 2 events, and yet his CH and TR scores went up by over a point. :unsure:

Well lets not forget it happened to PChan too, back in 2008-2009 season. Or peoples already forgot about it??? He received 81.39 on TEB to 88.90 at 4CC held in Vancouver, Canada with home country brownie points. Then world in LA, he score drop down bac to 82.55 same clean program. I hate to burst bubble, but all of his CH,TR didn't change between the TEB to up to world championship.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Well lets not forget it happened to PChan too, back in 2008-2009 season. Or peoples already forgot about it??? He received 81.39 on TEB to 88.90 at 4CC held in Vancouver, Canada with home country brownie points. Then world in LA, he score drop down bac to 82.55 same clean program. I hate to burst bubble, but all of his CH,TR didn't change between the TEB to up to world championship.

Chan's PCS for his clean SP at 2008 TEB was 37.15 and his PCS for his clean 2009 4CC SP was 38.60 - a difference of 1.45 points. It was 6 points higher TES (from better quality jumps, no edge call on his flip, level 4 footwork, and stronger spins than TEB), that chiefly contributed to the jump in score from 81.39 to 88.90. Not due to home ice brownie points. His Worlds FS was clean but less quality elements meant about 5 points lost in PCS, hence the score dropping back down. His PCS was 36.95, which was only 1.6 points shy of his PCS at 4CC.

In comparison, Hanyu's PCS for his perfect TEB SP this year was 42.65 and this jumped to 45.32 at the GPF (a difference of 2.67 points).
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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to suggest Hanyu received accurate PCS (92.5 points with a fall) at the GPF is pretty ridiculous. Like you honestly believe Hanyu earned that 193 score with a fall, and it wasn't blatant home ice inflation?

Why are you so incapable of reading? I said his scores were accurate in comparison to the overscoring Chan receives. They were both overscored, but in the end the differential was correct.

If Chan didn't skate his TEB FS, Hanyu would have the World Record FS for his GPF free skate. Think about if that were the case... a world record FS with a fall... truly indicative of the sport going in the right direction. :sarcasm:

If someone attempted 5 Quads in their LP and fell on one of them, that would still be a World record. Chan set a new World record at 2011 Worlds with a bad step-out.

Hanyu's program is considerably more difficult than Chan's. He made one mistake at the start and skated the remainder of the program perfectly. Even with a fall on Quad Sal, Hanyu's technical offering was equal to what Chan can do if he skated absolutely perfect. But Chan didn't skate perfect; he doubled a jump. His overall performance was slightly held back as well. He still deserved to beat Hanyu on PCS, but only by a few points. Which is shockingly how the judges scored him. Normally in this scenario Chan's PCS would be drastically higher.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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He still deserved to beat Hanyu on PCS, but only by a few points. Which is shockingly how the judges scored him.

So when I call Chan a better artistic skater than Hanyu you say that I'm telling lies. And then you (heavens be praised) actually admit Chan deserved to beat Hanyu on PCS. :laugh:

You say Chan doesn't deserve 90 points in PCS at his best but still deserved higher PCS than Hanyu. So you would agree that at the GPF Chan's PCS should have been more like 87-88, so Hanyu's PCS should have been about 85-86, right? ;)
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Hanyu's program is considerably more difficult than Chan's. He made one mistake at the start and skated the remainder of the program perfectly. Even with a fall on Quad Sal, Hanyu's technical offering was equal to what Chan can do if he skated absolutely perfect.

I agree that Hanyu's layout is more difficult than Chan's, but his actual program is less intricate and demanding than Chan's. About the 4S fall program being better than a perfect Chan, a program with 1 successful quad and 2 successful 3As is equivalent to a clean performance from Chan with 2 quads and 1 triple axel in terms of points. But if we are comparing executed jumps, 2 quads is better than 1. ;)
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Please stop the double posting. All you have to do is copy + paste the "quote=blahblahblah" coding and add "[/quote]" at the end of each section you want to break apart.

So when I call Chan a better artistic skater than Hanyu you say that I'm telling lies. And then you actually admit that Chan deserved to beat Hanyu on PCS. Which one is it? :laugh:

Artistry does not equal all of the PCS. Chan mainly deserves a buffer on skating skills. That said, I slightly prefer Chan's LP to Hanyu's this season. Neither having very interesting interpretation, but Chan's choreography is a little better. Hanyu deserved the higher performance component for these performances, though. Chan's second footwork sequence was underwhelming and then he fizzled out on the final spin afterward. It brought the performance down a notch and cost him technically as well.

I agree that Hanyu's layout is more difficult than Chan's, but his actual program is less intricate and demanding than Chan's.

I don't agree with that. Hanyu is doing harder entrances into his Quads than Chan, a harder entrance into his 3Lutz-half loop-3Sal, and one of the hardest entrances possible into his second 3Axel. Chan has a greater amount of inbetweens in total, but not the same amount of difficulty.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
Hanyu also messed up his final spin. You're admitting that Chan's choreo is better yet you said before Chan only has 9's worthy SS and TR. So you're saying Hanyu's choreo is undeserving of 9's, by extension.

And I'll post however I want, TYVM. I often make posts via my smartphone so if I post a response and then see something else to comment on in a post, it's much more feasible to create a separate response rather than edit/copy/paste/etc.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Hanyu also messed up his final spin.

Not as badly as Chan, who stumbled out of his.

You're admitting that Chan's choreo is better yet you said before Chan only has 9's worthy SS and TR. So you're saying Hanyu's choreo is undeserving of 9's, by extension.

I didn't say Chan only has 9 worthy SS (at his best)? For transitions yes.

And of course Hanyu's choreography is undeserving of a 9. I really don't get it; you just ignore everything. I specifically said they were both overscored. It's just that the differential was correct, which is what's important when comparing competitors. In general, though, this overscoring is terrible for the sport because these weak programs pull hugely undeserved numbers. It makes people ignore the actual artistic aspects of skating, which in turn diminishes the appeal of the entire sport.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
Hanyu is doing harder entrances into his Quads than Chan, a harder entrance into his 3Lutz-half loop-3Sal, and one of the hardest entrances possible into his second 3Axel.

You must not tell lies. ;) For the 1st quad, like Chan, Hanyu does basic skating into his opening 4S. As for their 2nd quad, Hanyu's RBO-LFI open choctaw step preceding the 4T is tricky yet far easier to execute/maintain speed than the LFO-LBO rocker turn preceding Chan's 2nd quad.

As far as their 3Z-3S entrances, Chan's entrance with a flying RBI-RFI counter is much harder than the mini waltz jump pirouette Hanyu does. A flying counter requires more blade control and is a greater risk to a loss of speed.

Hanyu's entry into the second 3A is indeed breathtakingly difficult but it's absolutely false to say he has harder quad/sequence entries.
 
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