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Thread: Unconventional or uncommon jump entrances/exits that the casual viewer might miss

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    Unconventional or uncommon jump entrances/exits that the casual viewer might miss

    Hello, everyone! I've been watching a few skating videos here and there and I noticed a couple of jump entrances and exits that I thought were interesting. I would have never even thought to notice these until a few well-versed posters here and there brought them up over the years. The jump entrances and exits reminded me of a thread that I made a year or two ago, and I thought they might be interesting to share (again).

    So here's a list that I came up with:

    1. Yuna Kim - 2013 Worlds LP - Spread eagle into 2A+2T+2Lo
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIU7Gsbkghg&t=3m10s
    2. Mao Asada - 2009 WTT SP - Spread eagle into 2A (different b/c switches foot?)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56hdpfuw36E&t=1m35s
    3. Peggy Fleming - 1968 U.S. Nationals LP - Spread eagle into 2A, exit into spread eagle
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdPKgg8SGys&t=2m43s
    4. Shen/Zhao - 2003 Worlds LP - Side-by-side spread eagle into 2A, exit into spread eagle
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kql3sf_crA&t=2m19s
    5. Kurt Browning - 2011 ATSS EX - Two spread eagles into 2A, exit into spread eagle
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoCl4pisrOo&t=1m39s
    6. Takahiko Kozuka - 2011 Worlds LP - Spread eagle into 3Lo
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huzgbk9DIL0&t=3m15s


    1. Midori Ito - 1988 Olympics SP - Lutz-like set-up into to one-foot entrance of 2A
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8tLyMqTpA&t=2m10s
    2. Irina Slutskaya - 2006 Olympics SP - Loop-like set-up into to one-foot entrance of 2A, exit into back spiral
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdEPk0eM0Ak&t=2m10s
    3. Yuzuru Hanyu - 2013 Worlds SP - Lutz-like set-up into to one-foot entrance of 3A
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=DYkGYMYW69c&t=2m20s



    1. Michelle Kwan - 1996 Worlds LP - 2A, exit into back spiral
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKmUW8wPB0s&t=1m53s
    2. Sasha Cohen - 2006 Worlds SP - 2A, exit into brief one-hand Biellmann spiral
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp-HYckXoak&t=1m13s
    3. Yuna Kim - 2010 Olympics LP - 3F, exit into mini circular inside-edge spread eagle
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noxpvATWzho&t=2m24s
    4. Yuna Kim - 2010 Olympics LP - 3S, exit into mini one-foot footwork
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noxpvATWzho&t=4m03s
    5. Yuna Kim - 2013 Worlds LP - 3Lz, exit into super-mini circular inside-edge spread eagle
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_nGAinNqhk&t=3m25s




    ...

    1. And the fairest of them all, Queen Surya Bonaly, with the "Are you kidding me?!" entrance into 3S:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mVVy25e-vk


    Please feel free to add your own below!

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    Why was back flip banned? She landed on one foot and even connected with a 3S. What was the rationale for the banning?

    I love Yuzuru's one-foot turn entry into 3A. He gets so much speed in landing flow, too.

    It's not an unexpected entry, but I just love Yuna's 3Lz. Her gliding across the ice before 3Lz is unmatched in speed and grace, which I have never seen from other women skaters. They all look awkward before lutz take-off.

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    Nice thread topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    [*] Midori Ito - 1988 Olympics SP - Lutz-like set-up into to one-foot entrance of 2A
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8tLyMqTpA&t=2m10s
    The turn is a back outside counter, which ends up on the forward outside axel takeoff edge.

    [*] Irina Slutskaya - 2006 Olympics SP - Loop-like set-up into to one-foot entrance of 2A, exit into back spiral
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdEPk0eM0Ak&t=2m10s
    Back inside three turn, which also ends up on forward outside edge for the axel takeoff.

    [*] Yuzuru Hanyu - 2013 Worlds SP - Lutz-like set-up into to one-foot entrance of 3A
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=DYkGYMYW69c&t=2m20s
    Also a back outside counter, with some other simple steps and a forward outside rocker preceding it.

    [*] Irina Slutskaya - 1998 Olympics SP - Back spiral to forward spiral into forward entrance of 2A
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGEXdhyRhak&t=2m55s
    It's her freeskate, not SP -- I love that sequence of moves.

    [*] Gary Beacom - 1984 CAN Nationals LP - The "I had no idea you were going to do a jump" entrance into 3A
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzCTd2QFo1k&t=2m42s
    It's a double axel -- and yeah, totally unexpected.

    [*] Ilia Klimkin - 2002 Euros LP - The "How the heck did you spin and then do the" entrance into 3S
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=yfM2Yn7qY3w&t=2m
    I still haven't figured out exactly what he does there.


    I really love this sequence of moves (bunny hop, bunny hop, half-inside axel, half-inside axel, lunge, half-axel in the other direction, lunge) into 2A; too bad she couldn't land it.


    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    Why was back flip banned? She landed on one foot and even connected with a 3S. What was the rationale for the banning?
    Backflips were banned in 1976 after American Terry Kubicka did one in his freeskate at the Olympics, etc.

    My understanding is that the reasoning was that it relies more on acrobatic skill and not so much skating skill -- it's not about what the blades are doing on the ice. At least with triple jumps, the curve of the edges generates the rotation, whereas with a backflip edges are irrelevant to the flipping action.

    But it's dangerous to learn and to practice on crowded freestyle sessions.
    So the ISU probably didn't want to accept it as a standard freeskating move and thereby encourage people to try learning it without the necessary acrobatic skill, badly injuring themselves or others in the process, in hopes of earning points for it.

    And there might have been some disdain for ice show-style tricks in general that are showy and exciting without showcasing real skating skill.

    Pair moves such as Detroiters and headbangers are also banned for similar reasons.
    And later lying/sliding on the ice-type moves.

    All are welcome in show skating.

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    This isn't something a casual viewer would miss, but it is unconventional: I loved Jill Trenary's one foot axel into a triple salchow. I know Bobek tried to add it when she was good that one year, but I don't remember it elsewhere though I'm not a bigtime watcher. I wish people did more of that rather than tacking on a double toe.

    Hmm, I just searched "Jill trenary one foot axel" and came up with a goldenskate thread from 2008 that said that it'd be just considered a triple salchow with a difficult entrance and since there's no reason to try a really difficult entrance over just a difficult entrance, no one will try it. Or that it'd be considered a single axel-triple salchow combo and get less than a triple salchow double toe in points. It looks a lot more difficult.

    That's quite a shame. I'd like to see someone do these in the future again. (BTW, I don't want to risk adding a link since I'm newish, so if you want to find the jumping pass just search for what I did above and the first post has a link.)

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    I remember Kurt Browning used to do that back flip in exhibition and hurt his back doing it so did not do it anymore.

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    Sorry, my bias is showing again, but I'm kind of in love with Song Nan's The Mission LP, and his triple axel, so this is one of my favorite jump exits: http://youtu.be/_8kU9WiJoL0?t=3m16s

    I'm unfortunately not enough of a skating expert to really know if it's that unconventional, but he basically exits into a mini one-foot twirl, a little bit like the Yuna 3S example from the OP.

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    The camel spin 3 salchow from klimkin was interesting and in the replay I was distracted by the banner "Alexei Sex Machine" lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Backflips were banned in 1976 after American Terry Kubicka did one in his freeskate at the Olympics, etc.

    My understanding is that the reasoning was that it relies more on acrobatic skill and not so much skating skill -- it's not about what the blades are doing on the ice. At least with triple jumps, the curve of the edges generates the rotation, whereas with a backflip edges are irrelevant to the flipping action.

    But it's dangerous to learn and to practice on crowded freestyle sessions.
    So the ISU probably didn't want to accept it as a standard freeskating move and thereby encourage people to try learning it without the necessary acrobatic skill, badly injuring themselves or others in the process, in hopes of earning points for it.

    And there might have been some disdain for ice show-style tricks in general that are showy and exciting without showcasing real skating skill.

    Pair moves such as Detroiters and headbangers are also banned for similar reasons.
    And later lying/sliding on the ice-type moves.

    All are welcome in show skating.
    Very informative. And it makes sense that it takes more of an acrobatic skill than a skating skill to back flip. Thank you for the history lesson!

  9. #9
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    Thank you for this post, aftertherain! Really interesting - I've always loved crazy jump entries and exits and now I can watch my favourites easily again and again without having to go through bookmarks & estimate the exact spot in the youtube video One of my all time favourites is Jason Brown's 2011 FS split jump into a triple Salchow (at 5:05 in this clip)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94pHGvq3Fs

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    I'm glad the OP mentioned Peggy Fleming. She is known now as a graceful skater, and indeed she was all that, but she was also a fine athlete. (And a whiz at school figures. Really, she was a complete skater, wasn't she?) I remember reading that at the time one of Peggy's specialties was the spreadeagle-double axel-spreadeagle. At the time I was doing my research about her, when I first became interested in skating, I didn't realize how impressive that move was. How lovely that people today are still getting praised for a move that she was able to do in 1968.

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    Baiul's entrance to 2A in her Lillehammer SP was lovely and different:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDdHQmcK7g

    Butyrskaya's spiral into 2A in her 1994 SP was also difficult and appealing (incidentally, this is one of my favorite SPs of all time: Buty busting out to Disco Phantom - is there anything better in life?!)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5sRk-mpC4Q

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    Peggy used to do a one and a half flip into a single axel that was very nifty.

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    IIRC an American man, maybe Matt Savoie, did an entrance in the 3A very similar to what Yuzu does in his SP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelENTL View Post
    Baiul's entrance to 2A in her Lillehammer SP was lovely and different:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDdHQmcK7g
    I loved this. It looks like she's going into a spin but throws in a 2A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Peggy used to do a one and a half flip into a single axel that was very nifty.
    Dick Button, is that you?

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