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Thread: Those who have seen YuNa and Patrick live-question

  1. #16
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    Sorry THIS is off topic now, but can you imagine how absurd it is that most of the top competitors in the ladies take the ice knowing they have virtually NO chance to skate their program clean? How absurd is that from a fan's perspective? If you want to grow the sport and make it popular, that's a terrible marketing strategy. "Hey, this skater can NEVER land 7 triples, but come out and watch her try anyway!"

  2. #17
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    ...emphasis should be placed on skaters skating programs that match their technical ability to finish the program with little or no mistakes.
    I agree with that 100%

    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    But really, both his and YuNa's skating make me go on any medium, so...
    I am trying to think if there are any skaters that look good in person but not on TV. (I think the opposite can occur in the case of a skater who skates small and does not fill the ice.)

    I had the pleasure of seeing my fave MK skate many times times both live and on television. It was about the same, for me. Of course, attending live was a more satisfying experience -- the smell of the grease paint, the roar of the crowd, etc.

  3. #18
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Didn't see them in person before, but I think Mao's Bells of Moscow program at Vancouver was actually very good, I don't know why you Mao ubers didn't like it. She couldn't beat Yuna though for many reasons.

    3A+2 = 5.5 < 3Lz+3T = 6.0
    Yuna's TES was always going to be much higher than Mao's.
    Yuna went clean and Mao didn't.

    The Mao ubers seemed to have it stuck in their head that Mao was always destined to be the greatest of her era, because she was #1 vs. Yuna #2 from 2004-2008. Up until 2009, Yuna only beat Mao when Mao made mistakes, and when Mao did her best she always won. The whole notion of Mao being better when she was on and Yuna being not as moving a skater but more technically consistent was imprinted into people's minds for many years.

    However, they grew up and into themselves. Mao never really got better. Yuna got astronomically better, and from 2009 onwards she moved into a #1 class all her own.

    For some reason, the Mao fans are left clinging to their feelings from 2004-2008. Like Mao herself, they never really evolved into anything beyond that. Magnificent Mao will always be better than reliable but unmoving Yuna in their minds. Like some 50 year old who still wears the same style clothes from their glory days in the 1970s, the Yuna haters cling to their outdated notions. They don't see that Yuna always continued to improve and mature as an artist, and by the time the two arrived at Vancouver and into their 20s, Yuna had left Mao and everyone else far behind.

    Yes, in my opinion the large gaps in scores are warranted. If people don't like it, they should hope for the other skaters to improve, rather than trying to bring someone else down.
    How did mao get drag into this thread. Decorum people your assessment of Mao fans is wrong and condesending to. Mao never got better your opinion. Some Yuna ubers should learn from her. Class

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    How did mao get drag into this thread. Decorum people your assessment of Mao fans is wrong and condesending to. Mao never got better your opinion. Some Yuna ubers should learn from her. Class
    Skateluvr included Mao in this thread by mentioning her several times in the OP. I also never said anything condescending toward Mao, I think she's a fine skater and even mentioned I liked one of her programs. In 2004-2008 she was #1 of her age, Yuna #2. Sometimes in life, things change. From 2009, Yuna passed the entire field and moved to a level without rival, in my opinion she deserves to win by the very large margins of victory she receives.

    I also disagree with the assertion that you can't notice speed and ice coverage on tv. At least in my case I feel like I can tell when some skaters are skating much faster than others.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Skatluvr, the consummate Yuna hater and Mao lover, said two things that I was commenting on...

    1. Mao's FS program at Vancouver was bad (I disagree, I think it was a very good program, skated well except for the mistakes)

    2. The whole OP was seeking confirmation bias that Yuna does not deserve to win by the large margins she wins by. I say nonsense, she does deserve to win by that much. She's a better skater. She kept getting better every year, other skaters of her era did not and she passed them by, to such a large measure that her winning totals reflect the difference in abilities.
    Ven, you are not very bright. I Like both skaters, and said my feeling watching in 2010. Your post is typical of a nasty uber who is not a skate fan but only a yuna fan. You deserve this reply after both your sneering, vicious posts. Thanks to YuNa fans that tried to explain who saw her or pat in person-much nicer posters than you.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Skateluvr included Mao in this thread by mentioning her several times in the OP. I also never said anything condescending toward Mao, I think she's a fine skater and even mentioned I liked one of her programs. In 2004-2008 she was #1 of her age, Yuna #2. Sometimes in life, things change. From 2009, Yuna passed the entire field and moved to a level without rival, in my opinion she deserves to win by the very large margins of victory she receives.

    I also disagree with the assertion that you can't notice speed and ice coverage on tv. At least in my case I feel like I can tell when some skaters are skating much faster than others.
    "For some reason, the Mao fans are left clinging to their feelings from 2004-2008. Like Mao herself, they never really evolved into anything beyond that. Magnificent Mao will always be better than reliable but unmoving Yuna in their minds. Like some 50 year old who still wears the same style clothes from their glory days in the 1970s, the Yuna haters cling to their outdated notions. They don't see that Yuna always continued to improve and mature as an artist, and by the time the two arrived at Vancouver and into their 20s, Yuna had left Mao and everyone else far behind".

    You don't consider this condescending. You are seriously claiming that Mao never evolved as a skater. You claim you like Mao but this comment prove other wise. By the way, you could have told us how godly you think Yuna Kim is without putting Mao down. So you claim Mao fans put Yuna Kim down, follow your own advice.

    By the way in case you forgot after Vancouver, the Mao you claim never evolved won a World Championship. No need to down play her accomplishments to compliment Yuna Kim

  7. #22
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    Ven wanted to wreck the thread. It really is not obvious how fast someone is skating, and I don't think the flaws in YuNa's skating-they come across as mentioned earlier merit 20 points over the field. And you seem confused re how much you "admire" Mao.

    This was about overscoring and how it is not fair to many gifted skaters. And how IJS was supposed to remedy this. Anonymity in judging is a serious flaw. When you turn things personal you can expect it back. Interesting you have nothing to say about YuNa's Zagreb outing which was overscored considering the GP finalists and the medalists. This was not the YuNa who skated last year. She deserved to be WC last year. Zagreb scoring was not earned. This is what the thread is about. reputation scoring and the Olympics. Julia may get home field advantage, but they won't give her rep points. She is technically good but does not have the presence prettykeys spoke of with YuNa and Kostner. They are women, and I think since 2002, they want a woman, not a 15 year old. JMO.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Ven wanted to wreck the thread. It really is not obvious how fast someone is skating, and I don't think the flaws in YuNa's skating-they come across as mentioned earlier merit 20 points over the field. And you seem confused re how much you "admire" Mao.

    This was about overscoring and how it is not fair to many gifted skaters. And how IJS was supposed to remedy this. Anonymity in judging is a serious flaw. When you turn things personal you can expect it back. Interesting you have nothing to say about YuNa's Zagreb outing which was overscored considering the GP finalists and the medalists. This was not the YuNa who skated last year. She deserved to be WC last year. Zagreb scoring was not earned. This is what the thread is about. reputation scoring and the Olympics. Julia may get home field advantage, but they won't give her rep points. She is technically good but does not have the presence prettykeys spoke of with YuNa and Kostner. They are women, and I think since 2002, they want a woman, not a 15 year old. JMO.
    so, what's the purpose again with this thread? seriously this whole complaining about over-scoring of yuna as if she's the only one who received is just hypocritical.. EVERYONE had experiences of over-scoring..

    and for crying out loud Zagreb is a B tournament.. it happened every year with over-scoring.. get over it!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I had the pleasure of seeing my fave MK skate many times times both live and on television. It was about the same, for me. Of course, attending live was a more satisfying experience -- the smell of the grease paint, the roar of the crowd, etc.
    I agree. I think usually a good skater in-person will usually look at least quite good on a screen. The screen does miss out on other aspects of the event, though, for sure. The electricity in the air, the anticipation, the hushed silences, the stillness of your seated neighbours, and the thunderous applause. I'm so glad I got to see one of my favourite skaters at an event she skated wonderfully at.

    I do think it's kinda fair for Patrick and YuNa to be at the centre of the debate, though, because they are the frontrunners and when they have won some events they won by huge margins. It may be that the score gap doesn't intuitively gel right with some skating fans' sense of how close the actual competition seemed. (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any specific posters' views, but I can understand why these two are being cited.)

    However, we have definitely seen overscoring and home-crowd favouritism this season across multiple events; it has been more blatant than in previous IJS years. On account of fairness for all skaters and the ones who may actually skate the best come Sochi, I think it's a relevant topic to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Julia may get home field advantage, but they won't give her rep points. She is technically good but does not have the presence prettykeys spoke of with YuNa and Kostner. They are women, and I think since 2002, they want a woman, not a 15 year old. JMO.
    Actually, I can imagine that Julia's frailness, her vulnerable look on the ice may actually work in her favour for the theme she has for her FS. We don't all have to be swept away by a grand, powerful performance. If Julia skates well, she will simply steal our hearts (at least that's my suspicion.)

  10. #25
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    Skateluvr, it causes me deep, deep pain that I upset your feelings. You are always without fail complimenting and fair about Yuna and other skaters, nobody should ever take a negative tone towards you or challenge the premise of your ideas.

  11. #26
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    Minze, I don't think Mao got any better than 2008 compared to Yuna or even others. In 2008 or before, when Mao brought her A game, she'd win every time. Only Yuna beat her when Mao made mistakes. In this way, over the course of many years, Mao developed a reputation for being the skater with the highest ceiling but Yuna being more reliable and steady. From 2009 this changed, Yuna's ability went to another level far beyond Mao or anyone else. In my opinion and in the opinion of many, many other people, Yuna's ceiling actually turned out to be much higher than Mao or anyone else, though that wasn't what a lot of people thought would happen the years before.

    But it seems like the opinions of some people did not change from 2009, despite the results changing. That's what I said, it seems like people made their opinions in earlier years and never opened their mind to the possibility that times change. If someone has their own preference for one skater over another then that's fine, anyone can have their favorites. But the results speak for themselves, Yuna has clearly surpassed all the other ladies. Saying she's overscored or doesn't deserve her wins is a far, far cry from someone just saying they prefer one skater over another.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chapis View Post
    I watched to Patrick in 4cc 2012 and I was so impressed, he is not my favorite but he moves so soft across the ice, he is very delicate in his skating.
    I also saw him at 4cc and was impressed. Not a fan 'til then. I'm still no uber but I appreciate his skating very much.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Is there this amazing quality each has that does not translate to TV?....

    I wonder if I'd "get it" if I saw these two in particular live. To be fair, Mao is always overscored in Japan, sadly for Akiko.
    There is really one answer to this -- go see them yourself!

    Some people will "get it", some will not.

    For me, I saw Yuna first time live in 2010 ice show, and I was blown away by her presence. I "got it" so to speak. As for Patrick, I saw him several times again at ATS ice shows, but from a layperson perspective, I couldn't really tell whether he was skating on another level as compared to the likes of Lambiel, Joubert, Lyascek, etc. They all seemed good to me.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven
    For some reason, the Mao fans are left clinging to their feelings from 2004-2008. Like Mao herself, they never really evolved into anything beyond that. Magnificent Mao will always be better than reliable but unmoving Yuna in their minds. Like some 50 year old who still wears the same style clothes from their glory days in the 1970s, the Yuna haters cling to their outdated notions. They don't see that Yuna always continued to improve and mature as an artist, and by the time the two arrived at Vancouver and into their 20s, Yuna had left Mao and everyone else far behind.
    Wow, it's quite amazing how condescending this comment is! I saw nothing in the original post that merited this kind of response.

    You clearly have some sort of delusional belief that Yuna being scored higher than Mao means that you as a Yuna fan are "better" than Mao fans. Reality check: Yuna's success is not your success, and does not reflect on you whatsoever. Yuna could break 500 points at the next Olympics, but you'd still just be someone living vicariously through others, without the maturity to be civil and not personally insult others on a figure skating board. Yuna's success is the result of her own hard work, and you have no standing to use her success to gloat or condescend to other people.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Minze, I don't think Mao got any better than 2008 compared to Yuna or even others. In 2008 or before, when Mao brought her A game, she'd win every time. Only Yuna beat her when Mao made mistakes. In this way, over the course of many years, Mao developed a reputation for being the skater with the highest ceiling but Yuna being more reliable and steady. From 2009 this changed, Yuna's ability went to another level far beyond Mao or anyone else. In my opinion and in the opinion of many, many other people, Yuna's ceiling actually turned out to be much higher than Mao or anyone else, though that wasn't what a lot of people thought would happen the years before.

    But it seems like the opinions of some people did not change from 2009, despite the results changing. That's what I said, it seems like people made their opinions in earlier years and never opened their mind to the possibility that times change. If someone has their own preference for one skater over another then that's fine, anyone can have their favorites. But the results speak for themselves, Yuna has clearly surpassed all the other ladies. Saying she's overscored or doesn't deserve her wins is a far, far cry from someone just saying they prefer one skater over another.
    Ok. Your opinion and the opinion of other people. Good, free country people can like who they want. But, for you to attack Mao fans and claim that neither them nor Mao have evolve is condescending IMO. Have your favorites and your opinion but be respectful of other skaters. You think Yuna Kim is far above any skater, say that but Yuna been the best in your opinion does not equal Mao has not evolve.

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